Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[Quyneax]

How about Barrows? I personally own and have used both the CR and CM there and it "feels" like the CLS's designation as "middle ground" between the two would be perfect there.

For reference I can do sub-5 minute openings using either the CR or CM but it feels rather like 0s with the CM slow me down more... Really counter intuitive in any case.

Also if it's important for some reason half the Barrows brothers have the same attack speed as CLS...

As far as I know rapier has higher dps on the Barrows brothers, less overkill loss and since you protect pray anyway there really is no need to ss flash (you could heal on Ahrim anyway, if you took damage in the tunnels). Even if cls was better on the melee brothers, Ahrim and Karil are weaker to rapier.

[Squisher_33]

Why are people so stupid? Even the arguments for CLS are usually stupid. I'll just have to repeat what I've said pages back.

 

"I get CLS instead of Rapier because it's stronger"

 

The rapier is 4 game ticks per hit, and the longsword is 5. The average hit of CLS must be 25% higher than the rapier to even match the same DPS. That difference is even harder to get when you are wearing armours that increase your bonuses, because it make the bonus differences much less significant.

 

If you get a CLS for the high hits, why not get the Chaotic Maul? Assuming the argument for CLS vs CR is "It hits higher", so does maul. Why don't people choose maul? The most common quote I've personally heard is, "It's slower". That contradicts the argument that CLS is not slow.

 

People are just stupid these days. The only logical argument I see is monsters with a exclusive weakness to Slash, something that requires a 5 tick weapon, or something that is best fought with Divine. The only two situations I could see for that is Td's and Bandos. Even then, it's still arguable.

 

Sigh

 

 

Arguing with idiots is a lesson in futility. Some people just can't be convinced. Fun is irrelevant on this thread, as we are only talking about provable, statistical, empirical data. Fun is important, but this thread isn't designed to answer questions about fun.

 

sadly half of this thread is anti-efficiency trolls

[totalpwnage]

One thing I wanna see discussion about is the shields and bow/staff. Staff is fun for pvp but it doesn't even protect over a rune plate. Same with Crossbow for protecting but I haven't used it yet, but I heard it owns pretty hard being 33% better accuracy than a rune crossbow. On top of that range gear is pretty cheap and has low alching values so yeah, ragging with a crossbow has a lot more potential. You see something like a chaotic staff and realize the damage is 5% more than a staff of light but the accuracy is hardly better if better at all.

The shields are annoying again with protect values. Chaotic Kiteshield has a 60001 protect value meaning basically that armadyl totem, abyssal whip, dragon claws, korasi, barrows plates/legs, etc will mostly protect over it. Now this is not much different than the chaotic weapons alch value of 78k except for whips won't protect over chaotic weapons. What's stupid is the fact that shields have had a pattern of having high alch values for a while. Dragon sq has an alch value of 300k, Blessed spirit shield has an alch of 840k, dragonfire shield/divine/elysian/arcane/etc all have alch values of 1200k. So why does this new chaotic kiteshield come out with an alch value of 60001? Come on... It's one of the most useful items but you can't even use it with a whip without possibly losing it in pvp.

 

Does anyone else feel that some of the alch values of these dungeoneering items should be higher? I mean for gods sake you can't make that much money off of dungeoneering even if you give shields a 2m alch value. Even the bug that caused 1m dg exp an hour only means that you mean 1m gp an hour. its 1:1 exp for gp. Of course i don't think they should be that high of an alch but still... Why should barrows stuff protect over it? Dragon sq protects over barrows, dfs same...

 

It just doesn't make sense why they would give such a low alchemy value to stuff that requires 80 attack/def and is powerful and hard to get. I suppose it kinda makes it fair for pvp because you have to risk it to use good gear and it prevents the weapons from possibly being overpowered, but the shields? Okay, divine costs a lot, but once you get it the only way you can risk it is by using an onyx ring (i), getting an ancient statuette, or pking in non+1 with it. Chaotic Kiteshield, practically whatever you use with it you're going to risk it. The only thing it leaves you with it using something like dscim to dds... or ragging.

 

I'm trying to look at it from both sides and figure out why it was done like this but its kinda hard. I guess its just fear that a glitch would happen for fast dg expand cause a huge money dupe or something. Yeah, that's not gonna save anything jagex - look what happened with barb assault... dungeoneering itself was a risk with items having trade values of thousands... etc. 1m an hour? meh.. almost anyone can do that. Without bugs this skill is a max of 400k an hour at 120+ dungeoneering...

[Dragonlordjl]

The alch values really bug me, too. It's bull**** losing a chaotic weapon, which I value at around 35m based the figures of a mediocre 80k xp/hr (which is realistically what most people can obtain-- most people aren't a high enough level to benefit from the high exp rates or the efficiency of being in "dg clans") and a moderate 1.5m gp/hr, to something far less valuable. And didn't Jamflex say they were going to implement a way for players to get back lost chaotic items for cheaper? What happened to that?

 

It'd be much better if they simply allowed you to purchase the ability to WIELD said items with the 2m tokens (perhaps, receiving the item in a broken form when you first purchase the ability to wield it) and then made you buy the items with actual GP. I'm sure most people would much rather shell out 20m gp to replace their lost chaotic maul or rapier than to spend another 30+ hours getting 2m dungeoneering exp. Many people I've met who are 100+ dungoneering don't really care the rest of the game anymore anyway. So the rewards are fairly moot for them-- the skill itself is sort of its own reward.

[All_Is_Great]

The alch values really bug me, too. It's bull**** losing a chaotic weapon, which I value at around 35m based the figures of a mediocre 80k xp/hr (which is realistically what most people can obtain-- most people aren't a high enough level to benefit from the high exp rates or the efficiency of being in "dg clans") and a moderate 1.5m gp/hr, to something far less valuable. And didn't Jamflex say they were going to implement a way for players to get back lost chaotic items for cheaper? What happened to that?

 

It'd be much better if they simply allowed you to purchase the ability to WIELD said items with the 2m tokens (perhaps, receiving the item in a broken form when you first purchase the ability to wield it) and then made you buy the items with actual GP. I'm sure most people would much rather shell out 20m gp to replace their lost chaotic maul or rapier than to spend another 30+ hours getting 2m dungeoneering exp. Many people I've met who are 100+ dungoneering don't really care the rest of the game anymore anyway. So the rewards are fairly moot for them-- the skill itself is sort of its own reward.

 

Buying chaotic weapons with gp, I wouldn't like that idea. The high alch values are a bit low, but if you be careful with your weapon, you won't lose it.

[Quyneax]

The chaotic shields should protect over barrows gloves, imo, as should the crossbow and staff. 100001 gp value is fine (though, what chaotic would you keep first then? is that based on item ID number or something?).

[Dragonlordjl]

The chaotic shields should protect over barrows gloves, imo, as should the crossbow and staff. 100001 gp value is fine (though, what chaotic would you keep first then? is that based on item ID number or something?).

Order in inventory, with equipped items taking precedence. I am not sure how it orders equipped items that have the same protect value if you will lose both of them, since that is almost never an issue.

[Quyneax]

The chaotic shields should protect over barrows gloves, imo, as should the crossbow and staff. 100001 gp value is fine (though, what chaotic would you keep first then? is that based on item ID number or something?).

Order in inventory, with equipped items taking precedence. I am not sure how it orders equipped items that have the same protect value if you will lose both of them, since that is almost never an issue.

OK thanks, also, weird. But ok.

[Greg295]

I agree with that dragonlord and totalpwnage have said completly, espescilly about the ability to wield them instead of buying them. But for this to work, i think that every buyback you do would have to be rather expensive (20-35m) so you dony have a ton of chaotics running all over pvp. But i never pk, any pkers want to tell me what they think of this idea?

 

On a side note, i also think that extremes should be tradable and just require level X to drink them. This would eliminate boosting for them, but you could also sell back any extremes you make while training, and i know alot of people have 10k+ spec restores just siting in the bank that will most likley never be used.

[stonewall337]

I agree with that dragonlord and totalpwnage have said completly, espescilly about the ability to wield them instead of buying them. But for this to work, i think that every buyback you do would have to be rather expensive (20-35m) so you dony have a ton of chaotics running all over pvp. But i never pk, any pkers want to tell me what they think of this idea?

 

On a side note, i also think that extremes should be tradable and just require level X to drink them. This would eliminate boosting for them, but you could also sell back any extremes you make while training, and i know alot of people have 10k+ spec restores just siting in the bank that will most likley never be used.

Who would buy them though?

[Greg295]

Do you make your own pots? Without knowing you im guessing you dont. If i could straight up buy my exts without having to get brown spice in that godforsaken basement, hoping for a good boost, logging out every inventory to keep that boost, then decanting them i would gladly buy them.

[green9090]

I agree with that dragonlord and totalpwnage have said completly, espescilly about the ability to wield them instead of buying them. But for this to work, i think that every buyback you do would have to be rather expensive (20-35m) so you dony have a ton of chaotics running all over pvp. But i never pk, any pkers want to tell me what they think of this idea?

 

On a side note, i also think that extremes should be tradable and just require level X to drink them. This would eliminate boosting for them, but you could also sell back any extremes you make while training, and i know alot of people have 10k+ spec restores just siting in the bank that will most likley never be used.

Who would buy them though?

I would. Other people with 99 herblore would. People with 96 who don't care to get any higher would as well.

[stonewall337]

I'm talking about spec rest pots.

[green9090]

I'm talking about spec rest pots.

I would.

[Sir_Squab]

Do you make your own pots? Without knowing you im guessing you dont. If i could straight up buy my exts without having to get brown spice in that godforsaken basement, hoping for a good boost, logging out every inventory to keep that boost, then decanting them i would gladly buy them.

 

Ah. Why not just get the actual herblore level FOR the potion and get rid of getting the brown spice?

 

If pots were tradeable you would have to, unless your proposing to use said stews to DRINK THE POTION instead. Yeah. That'll work :rolleyes:

[stonewall337]

I'm talking about spec rest pots.

I would.

Misquote, he said he'd buy untradable pots, not specifying spec rest pots only.

[green9090]

I'm talking about spec rest pots.

I would.

Misquote, he said he'd buy untradable pots, not specifying spec rest pots only.

That was me. I was quoting myself.

 

I'd buy spec restores because they're useful, and good herblore training. Hence, they'd be nice and cheap. I don't need the herblore exp, but I do need the spec restores.

[stonewall337]

You'd buy some, but I mean, I alone have something like 3k. There are way more then demand, I believe.

[Dragonlordjl]

I have 15.6k spec restores :unsure:

[green9090]

Which is why they'd be cheap as hell :D

 

At, say, 1k for a 4 dose, everyone with the appropriate level would use them all the time for everything. They'd get used up.

[Obtaurian]

I have around 5k, and I use them for everything. Useful little things. Cheap, too.

[Bladewing]

i like never use mine simply because the few tasks i do for which they would be useful i just can't be assed.

[Obtaurian]

i like never use mine simply because the few tasks i do for which they would be useful i just can't be assed.

 

OH LOOK THE EFFICIENCY CLOWN ISN'T BEING EFFICIENT. GO DO YOUR 10 MINUTE LARGE WARPED FLOORS, CLOWN@@@2

 

Disclaimer for mods: I'm joking.

[Greg295]

Do you make your own pots? Without knowing you im guessing you dont. If i could straight up buy my exts without having to get brown spice in that godforsaken basement, hoping for a good boost, logging out every inventory to keep that boost, then decanting them i would gladly buy them.

 

Ah. Why not just get the actual herblore level FOR the potion and get rid of getting the brown spice?

 

If pots were tradeable you would have to, unless your proposing to use said stews to DRINK THE POTION instead. Yeah. That'll work :rolleyes:

 

I don't have the actual level for them because like many people my bank isn't amazing, and i was thinking along the lines that selling untradable exts (most notably spec restores) would allow many people to buy the actual level that they used to have to boost to.

 

And no, of course im not proposing we run into gwd with an invent of brown spice, stews, and ext pots for every time we repot.

[Lep]

Dragon Defender = more gf towards CLS and update for damage reduction above 200 = even more gf towards CLS. :D