The Rollback Cover-up

[ForsakenMage]

If you come across content that is not for general public viewing, I highly recommend NOT posting that stuff, especially if it is from a private forum. <_<

[timmmmm83]

Censorship here too?

 

Great... <_<

[xpx]

Censorship here too?

 

Great... <_<

second that. Those posts are, afterall, official statements from jagex, no matter where they posted them(obviously they should post them on public forums but they can't because they'll get murdered for it).

[Guest jrhairychest]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

[Hajutze]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

Both sides are guilty ... you can't deny the huge grind-fest that's called RuneScape.

[Youmu]

The people who have been getting reset, though, have also been issued bans. Back when it was happening in mid-October, everyone who had been reset received a permanent ban. The same will probably happen in this case; at some stage they'll all be knocked down. And I've no reason to "Think" about people who claim they didn't bot - their word against Jagex's, sure, but Jagex is more than likely on the spot.

But the point is, they AREN'T receiving bans. If they did along with the level resets, this issue wouldn't even be so heavily discussed.

[iamsomebody1]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

Both sides are guilty ... you can't deny the huge grind-fest that's called RuneScape.

 

Yes but if you don't like to grind you should just quit and Jagex has been trying to reduce the grind throughout the years (most skills are easy nowadays besides rcing imo) anyways I think Jagex should start charging people if there found cheating. Bots really don't bother me to much except the fact that most of them are arrogant and think that people that play the game fairly are losers etc (hmg some of us actually enjoy playing rs?!) I have 25 99 stats and I can proudly say I didn't have to cheat for any of them.

 

& lol at the blue phat guy botting pure ess, he can probably make 10m a day just from updating a few offers in the ge throughout the day

[Saru Inc]

First off, why is everyone wondering why Jagex is doing this? It's no surprise, and I'm surprised they didn't start it earlier. In a financial downturn, this kind of thing is to be expected. Besides, they're not obligated to follow the players wishes and ban the players. They can do what they want.

[xpx]

First off, why is everyone wondering why Jagex is doing this? It's no surprise, and I'm surprised they didn't start it earlier. In a financial downturn, this kind of thing is to be expected. Besides, they're not obligated to follow the players wishes and ban the players. They can do what they want.

Are we surprised? i think most of us are passing judgment on jagex'es lack of judgment. The more honest players they lose, the worse they will be in the long run, and this new regime really ****s in the face of those players(quite the attitude of: You can steal anything, but if you get caught doing so, you'll have to pay for the stuff you steal(but no other penalties)). Even by taking away some xp earned by legit ways, those accounts would never turn legit just because of that. Ban them forever and be done with it, that is, if you are thinking about the future.

[langer]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

Both sides are guilty ... you can't deny the huge grind-fest that's called RuneScape.

 

Almost every game has a grind part and this is especially true with RPGs. If the players don't like that fact, they should play other games. IF you don't like a product, you don't buy it. If you wanna be a doctor be can't be bothered to study the whole 7 years, you either choose another career or you cheat your way around it. If you get caught cheating IRL, you don't have a second chance. This should be the same with RS. I understand that Jagex fear they might lose too many players if they act harshly on cheaters, but at some point, a responsible company should at least ackowledge publicly their stance on an issue that has been tearing up the community for as long as the game was released.

 

Things Jagex could do to to reduce botting without perm bans:

- Temporary name change to a serial botting name like : botter0003 (this would identify the botters to everyone in a standardized way - imagine that know-it-all friend who is always showing off having his name changed...)

- Temporary-permanent ban from trading-use of GE.

- Being able to only use bronze items (combat, pickaxe, hatchet) for a predefined period (I.E. 3 months) or other means of training way below the usual training methods

- Being able to log in a special botter's world for a predetermined period (let the botters fight amongst themselves for ressources!)

[Hajutze]

- Being able to only use bronze items (combat, pickaxe, hatchet) for a predefined period (I.E. 3 months) or other means of training way below the usual training methods

Give them a permanently equipped balloon-ban-hammer with -100 -100 -100 -100 -100 ... you get the idea.

[Ts_Stormrage]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

Oh I dont like botters at all (or any kind of cheaters for that matter)... The problem is also that some people refuse to see the negative impact these bots/genuine players who bot have on the game...

 

But give me the device to make it possible for me to wield an axe in the living room of a botter... And I'll cut their grubby little mits right off...

[amitoz]

The irony is that everyone seems to be condemning Jagex for not doing enough, yet hardly anyone condemns the players for macroing in the first place. Player greed and laziness is the root cause.

Oh I dont like botters at all (or any kind of cheaters for that matter)... The problem is also that some people refuse to see the negative impact these bots/genuine players who bot have on the game...

 

But give me the device to make it possible for me to wield an axe in the living room of a botter... And I'll cut their grubby little mits right off...

O.o

 

But I concur.

[Nifflin]

Hey, thought people would like to see this. It's from an RSOF thread I made asking a few questions about rollbacks. Some of the questions were dodged but I think the responses still have merit. A J Mod answered me with the following:

 

Quick find code: 14-15-447-62009836

 

 

1. What is the reason for using resetting stats as a punishment? Has it been proven more effective in preventing botting then permanent bans?

 

The reason is that, whilst Permanent Bans are sometimes necessary (and we do still issue them for macroing!) they aren't always the most effective way of dealing with a player who has macroed.

 

Some players spend years of hard work on accounts but get lured to "the dark side" for brief moments. Previously these players would get their account permanent banned from the game and all the legitimate effort they put in goes down the drain.

 

This way we are still effectively punishing anybody who uses a macro, but for the people who make a genuinely stupid mistake they get a decent chance. We take away what they got from macroing (XP, Items etc) AND in many cases apply a penalty as well. However they can still play.

 

Of course, people who aren't just making genuine mistakes are going to find out that we have not gone soft on cheaters and permanent bans still exist.

 

As for how "effective" it has been, it's early days but we certainly think so.

 

2. Be honest, does retaining paying members have anything to do with this change in policy?

 

A loaded question if ever there was one.

 

On a serious note, we can say that we want players to keep playing on accounts that they *have* spent genuine time and effort on and people will just say we are doing it for "the money". so it really depends on how you want to perceive Jagex.

 

3. What is your position on accounts retaining items gained from botting?

 

With regard to equipped/worn items; it was possible for about two weeks when we first started doing these rollbacks but is no longer an issue – this was an oversight on our part – not a bug.

 

Now - When an account is rolled back – on next login it checks to see if the account was rolled back and will not allow it to wield/wear the item below it’s level. The items are in inventory but cannot be used until the appropriate level is regained.

 

4. What is your opinion on the advantages that many botters have gained over legitimate players becuase they have access to things at a lower combat level then legitimate players due to resets?

 

See above answer.

 

5. Are there measures in place to prevent subsequent real world trading that comes from botters being able to create elite PvP accounts?

 

So a lot of players think that we will just rollback experience blindly. We know how players use combat levels to gain advantages in PvP and take this into consideration.

 

Likewise, players won't be able to use any equipment they don't have the levels for as described above.

 

6. Do you consider the aforementioned fact to in any way be an incentive to bot?

 

See my answers above.

 

There is absolutely no reason or benefit to botting. Doing so will only waste your own time and incur penalties.

 

That's all I can really answer, I hope it gives a bit more clarity on the XP rollbacks and puts some concerns to rest.

 

 

 

He dodged a few of my questions a little, but still got some interesting information. What was especially interesting was later in the thread when someone brought up things like turmoil and barrows that people were keeping because they have invisible requirements. Mod Mark H didn't seem to be aware that it was a problem and said he would look into it and get back to the thread. That was hours ago.

[essiw]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

[Nifflin]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

 

I think they answered it in another thread. Also, I didn't want to come off as too accusatory or aggressive.

[Omali]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

 

Because Jagex pulls a deer-in-headlights whenever they get caught doing something and start rambling like a five year old.

 

"Did you break the vase?"

"No...I was in the bathroom."

"It has your hand prints on it."

"I saw the dog do it. He bumped into the table."

"How did you see the dog do it if you were in the bathroom?"

"...erp."

[Ts_Stormrage]

Here's something that jumped to mind...

 

Jagex does this whole elaborate scheme now, that requires lots of time of their people to check each and every individual account that may or may not have botted, and then to determine how much xp/wealth and such there should be removed, and/or wether to give a temp/perm ban...

 

Doesn't seem economical to me...

 

Especially, when their attitude of actually BAN-HAMM0RING any person that even thought of DANCING like a robot, to create a more perfect community, was liked by many... And basicly made this game as big as it today...

[Howlin0001]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

Because they were still doing it on a trial basis and wasn't sure if it was going to be a success and to keep the cheaters guessing.

[xpx]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

Because they were still doing it on a trial basis and wasn't sure if it was going to be a success and to keep the cheaters guessing.

White lies? sounds like something a widely professional programming company would do :lol:

[amitoz]

The question I would ask is, why did they deny the fact that they used that form of punishment and said it was a bug?

To buy time.