Wilderness and free trade vote! - Now Closed

[GuidesForScapers]

Reading the arguments against implementing the old wilderness I am not seeing very good ones. The only argument against is people whining about how it will be inconvenient for them to do a clue scroll or runecraft (if you want to call that an argument).

Yeah, now I think you're just living up to your avatar.

 

And the only argument for is people whining about how they want to try to destroy anyone who sets foot north of Edgeville. See, I can make generic negative-connotation statements too!

Nice too see you guys have given up arguing your unwinnable point.

[Soma2035]

Most of those things you listed are still problems in today's PvP. And don't you think they would have fixed the npc problem by now even if we had the old wilderness?

 

Your saying the new wild is better, which is clearly your own opinion. In fact, there is more evidence pointing toward the fact that old wilderness is better.

 

Read his post more carefully, lol. He's just posting to get on people's nerves. Seriously, 41 prayer preventing 50% damage? That's golden. As is the level 21 spell.

[Naraku893]

Reading the arguments against implementing the old wilderness I am not seeing very good ones. The only argument against is people whining about how it will be inconvenient for them to do a clue scroll or runecraft (if you want to call that an argument).

Yeah, now I think you're just living up to your avatar.

 

And the only argument for is people whining about how they want to try to destroy anyone who sets foot north of Edgeville. See, I can make generic negative-connotation statements too!

 

 

Your clearly not a pker.

[muggiwhplar]

The problem is, the Wilderness has, these past 3 years, been updated with relative safety in mind.

Consider these:

 

• Chaos tunnels entrances are all in Wilderness. Running from Edge to the nearest rope can be a potential PK camping spot.

• Corporeal Beast's dungeon is in Wilderness. It needs high level gear (or mass amounts of people) to be killed. Both liked by PK'ers.

• 2 Minigames in Wilderness.

• 2.5 Quests in Wilderness. (Both Summer quests, Defender of Varrock, Temple at Senntisten, WGS [bork] all require at least partially wilderness)

• Commonpalace Armoured zombie training says bye.

 

These need to be thoroughly considered.

 

That would make the wilderness an exciting/nerve-wracking place to be (like it's supposed to be), rather than just some boring, barren wasteland without any real threats.

 

Whatever happened to the concept of Risk vs. Reward?

 

Muggi I thought you would realize by now that the new runescape philosophy is that long safe grind->reward

 

Ah, thanks for the reminder-- I forgot about that #-o

[Jehosaphat]

Reading the arguments against implementing the old wilderness I am not seeing very good ones. The only argument against is people whining about how it will be inconvenient for them to do a clue scroll or runecraft (if you want to call that an argument).

Yeah, now I think you're just living up to your avatar.

 

And the only argument for is people whining about how they want to try to destroy anyone who sets foot north of Edgeville. See, I can make generic negative-connotation statements too!

Nice too see you guys have given up arguing your unwinnable point.

More like I've realized that no matter how much I argue with people that derive joy from causing others harm, it's not going to stop them from getting what they want because of a flawed "voting" system.

 

And no, Naraku, I'm not a PKer. Maybe because I have the decency to earn my GP in ways that DON'T hurt other people.

[Artemis_42]

The old wild is what made the game unique, complete freedom, no rules, no ethics, just an barren area where people could be malicious, back stabbing, low, whatever, and it was up to you to find a way to deal with that..

 

So, the old wild was just like /b/?

 

Whatever happened to the concept of Risk vs. Reward?

 

The problem is that it would be increasing the risk of preexisting content (such as the Chaos Tunnels) while keeping the reward the same. I imagine that most players wouldn't bother using the tunnels when they'd have to dodge pkers every time they wanted to kill some demons/dust devils/bork/etc.

 

Anyways, I agree with NukeMarine. In terms of combating RWT, reintroducing the old wilderness is just taking a step backwards. Jagex would need to relocate and rework numerous features added to the wilderness after open pking was removed in order to make the appealing to the players. I'm not sure that its worth going to that much trouble simply because they want to shoehorn pking back into the wilderness. Whatever happened to the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" mentality that Tipit users have had for so long? The current system is not broken, and the old system was not perfect. There's no need to make things the way they were. It seems to me that most players have simply been blinded by the rosy tint of nostalgia.

[muggiwhplar]

Reading the arguments against implementing the old wilderness I am not seeing very good ones. The only argument against is people whining about how it will be inconvenient for them to do a clue scroll or runecraft (if you want to call that an argument).

Yeah, now I think you're just living up to your avatar.

 

And the only argument for is people whining about how they want to try to destroy anyone who sets foot north of Edgeville. See, I can make generic negative-connotation statements too!

Nice too see you guys have given up arguing your unwinnable point.

More like I've realized that no matter how much I argue with people that derive joy from causing others harm, it's not going to stop them from getting what they want because of a flawed "voting" system.

 

And no, Naraku, I'm not a PKer. Maybe because I have the decency to earn my GP in ways that DON'T hurt other people.

 

Do you feel sorry for people who died after they entered the wilderness and read (or ignored...) the message that said "Warning! This place is DANGEROUS! If you die, you'll lose your [cabbage]!"

[Obtaurian]

And no, Naraku, I'm not a PKer. Maybe because I have the decency to earn my GP in ways that DON'T hurt other people.

 

That's the most flawed reasoning for NOT being a PKer that I've ever heard. That literally doesn't make any sense.

[Naraku893]

Cuasing others harm? Really? This is a game. If your talking about pking, don't go into the wildernes, and you won't get "harmed".

[Jehosaphat]

Do you feel sorry for people who died after they entered the wilderness and read (or ignored...) the message that said "Warning! This place is DANGEROUS! If you die, you'll lose your [cabbage]!"

No.

 

Do I think that it's good to be the person who caused it? No.

[Vex]

Did someone say nostalgia?

 

(Original RSN)

[muggiwhplar]

The old wild is what made the game unique, complete freedom, no rules, no ethics, just an barren area where people could be malicious, back stabbing, low, whatever, and it was up to you to find a way to deal with that..

 

So, the old wild was just like /b/?

 

Whatever happened to the concept of Risk vs. Reward?

 

The problem is that it would be increasing the risk of preexisting content (such as the Chaos Tunnels) while keeping the reward the same. I imagine that most players wouldn't bother using the tunnels when they'd have to dodge pkers every time they wanted to kill some demons/dust devils/bork/etc.

 

Anyways, I agree with NukeMarine. In terms of combating RWT, reintroducing the old wilderness is just taking a step backwards. Jagex would need to relocate and rework numerous features added to the wilderness after open pking was removed in order to make the appealing to the players. I'm not sure that its worth going to that much trouble simply because they want to shoehorn pking back into the wilderness. Whatever happened to the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" mentality that Tipit users have had for so long? The current system is not broken, and the old system was not perfect. There's no need to make things the way they were. It seems to me that most players have simply been blinded by the rosy tint of nostalgia.

 

I'm just saying that using places like that would be a lot more fun and exciting now if there was added risk, considering there's practically zero risk in the game nowadays.

 

I hated RC until I tried using the abyss for the first time. I always enjoyed running to the Zammy mage every trip because of the thrill that RC PKers brought

[GuidesForScapers]

Reading the arguments against implementing the old wilderness I am not seeing very good ones. The only argument against is people whining about how it will be inconvenient for them to do a clue scroll or runecraft (if you want to call that an argument).

Yeah, now I think you're just living up to your avatar.

 

And the only argument for is people whining about how they want to try to destroy anyone who sets foot north of Edgeville. See, I can make generic negative-connotation statements too!

Nice too see you guys have given up arguing your unwinnable point.

More like I've realized that no matter how much I argue with people that derive joy from causing others harm, it's not going to stop them from getting what they want because of a flawed "voting" system.

 

And no, Naraku, I'm not a PKer. Maybe because I have the decency to earn my GP in ways that DON'T hurt other people.

You just made my day. Don't like losing items? Get the [bleep] out of PVP areas. The only people "harming" or "hurting" other people is people like you, attempting to pin the flaws of your own idiocy on legit and respectable players that understand how the game is supposed to work.

 

Read a [bleep]ing book.

[i_trollz_u]

Complaining about prayer? Seriously? Find a way around it, bring a different combat style...prayer is part of pvp too you know. I'm sure people complained about all of those, but i don't see any problem with those tactics. Those were all just forms of emergent gameplay to me. Explain why any of those destroyed the theme of pvp or the wild. The worst i could pick out of those is probably one itmeing, but those exist in any scenario where jagex allows for protection of items, whether through prayer or +1 worlds.

 

Teleporting definitely should be kept in the game. There's a reason you can teleblock people.

 

Pvp servers are kind of cool, but it lacks the element of being able to kill helpless people like you could in the wild. A battleground is not how i imagined the wild. The wild was unique in that it wasn't a battleground as much as it was a free for all area where people could do anything they wanted, and people had to be creative and smart in how they acted.

 

The only restriction was combat levels, but there is obvious reasons for that...other than that the wild was a pretty crazy and awesome place.

I'm talking about complaints that PKERS!!!! had about the wilderness of old. You know, the guys that liked to fight other players. Not the strawmen some here are throwing out.

 

1. Pkers did not like the protect prayers. With a level 41 skill you have something that absorbs 50% of any melee damage. Even the new damage absorbing armor cannot match that in the level 70+ range.

 

Obviously there were really bad pkers who complained about any defense tactic that prevented them from killing someone. Point of the wild is that you had to figure ways around everything, not only how to survive properly but how to kill effectively too. Those who couldn't would not succeed, and the wild didn't give mercy or pity kills like 76king that the current pvp system gives.

2. Pkers did not like protect item prayer. It just encouraged 1 itemers that wanted quick kills with zero risk.

 

And yet they all used them so they would keep their whips or whatever when they died....1 itemers are inevitable in any situation where people are allowed to protect. There is literally nothing you can do about it, unless you want to skull anyone who enters the wilderness, which is probably bad for anyone who isn't there to try and pk. I think the wilderness should have other uses than a battleground for people to kill each other in, so not everyone should be skulled. The interaction between pkers and people who are just trying survive in the wild is what made it unique.

 

3. Pkers did not like that players could avoid being attacked by attacking an NPC. Now, this has since been corrected on the new PvP areas, but that's not the "old wild" now is it?

 

No, it actually hasn't...people ep in the wild at the dark wizards place and you still can't do anything to attack them....so a form of emergent gameplay emerged...why is that bad? People complain about everything, there's not always merit in their complaints. Plus if it really needed to be fixed jagex could easily fix that too while restoring the old wild.

 

4. Pkers complained about teleporting because with just a level 21 spell you can escape someone with 99's in all attack styles. If you're skulled and in combat you should not be able to teleport was a common suggestion BY PKERS!!!

 

So get teleblock? Teleporting was a safety net for anyone who wasn't pking. I mean its kind of how people escape in the wild a lot of times. Part of the wild is knowing how to survive even if you are the one hunting, not being automatically locked in a deathmatch. This is where teleports and brews came in.

5. Pkers complained about tag teaming in single combat wild. Yeah, that's been fixed in PvP servers, but that's not the old wild now is it?

 

Wait what? People still pk in teams even in single combat areas. Its suppose to get you an advantage even in single as you could rely on your teamates to back you up. I don't see why it was ever a problem, just run when that happens, ur probably not going to die if ur prepared, considering only one of them can attack you at a time.

 

Oh yeah, look at your "Pvp servers are kind of cool, but it lacks the element of being able to kill helpless people like you could in the wild". How about we just give your character the ability to attack anyone and nobody can attack you. Should make for a blast of a game, for just you. It's a selfish way of looking at the game. The PvP servers do what the wilderness used to do, let you fight those that willingly go there. The PvP server IS THE WILDERNESS. Problem is for wimps that only want to attack helpless people that unknowingly enter dangerous areas, it's difficult finding an easy target.

 

Pvp server = battleground and all the pkers caged together, and where you rush in and our of safe zones in the GE.

 

wild = giant ocean where pkers could fight each other, but there were also smaller fish to hunt, and fish trying to avoid sharks and survive in a dangerous ocean.

 

pvp worlds=/=wild

 

Anyway, you guys can go on and on about how the old wild was better, but in truth its better now. The only thing missing is the free trade/keep what you kill rule. There's no benefit to game play and fun for a majority of players and pkers to bring back to the way it was. Update how kill drops work, further penalize potential abuse, and keep it to PvP servers.

The old wild contained a lot of elements that new pvp doesn't capture, other than the keep what you kill part.

.

[NukeMarine]

Hi, NukeMarine. Do you know why you get skulled upon entering the abyss? So you can lose all your items if you die, duh! That proves it was intended to be dangerous, and not just a convenient way to RC. Besides you can buy back pouches now, which might make RC pking a money drain :!:

 

As well, you don't get skulled unlesss you attack first. That's the way it worked, which means that if you don't feel like killing others, you wouldn't be skulled in the first place, and you will be safe.

 

Most problems in the old wildy still exist in todays BH worlds y'know? Like praying, safing, luring, teleporting, etc etc.

So wait, it seems like everyone wanting the old wild back just wants to be able to attack non PvPrs? Really, that's what it's about? Killing guys that aren't really in the mood to fight another player, but just happen to be in one area of the map that allows it?

 

Look, I appreciated when Jagex made the abyss and how it tried to make PKers into a monster of sorts. But when you have all the problems of PvP that the wilderness brought, it just took away the fun of the game. And sorry, a Level 85 spell (teleblock) to counter a level 21 spell (teleport) is asinine. If they bring back the wilderness ie PvP on all servers it better have better game mechanics that what it did.

 

For example

 

1. You need a Red Skull to attack other non-Red skulled players.

2. While a Red Skull, you cannot teleport while in the wilderness.

3. While Red SKull, your protect from and protect item prayers do not work

4. You can only get a Red Skull at the Zammy Priest in the level 5 wild, and you must keep the red skull for a minimum of 1 hour game time.

5. The Zammy mage can change a red skull back to a white skull if you ask him, which then goes away after 20 minutes.

6. Anybody can attack a red skull., but non-red skulled players get white skulled in the process.

7. Level restrictions of the wild apply except any red skull can attack another red skull anywhere.

 

In other words, you want to pk on a non-pk server it's gonna be with some pretty steep penalties. However, you then get the benefit of attacking non-pkers in the wilderness.

[GuidesForScapers]

Hi, NukeMarine. Do you know why you get skulled upon entering the abyss? So you can lose all your items if you die, duh! That proves it was intended to be dangerous, and not just a convenient way to RC. Besides you can buy back pouches now, which might make RC pking a money drain :!:

 

As well, you don't get skulled unlesss you attack first. That's the way it worked, which means that if you don't feel like killing others, you wouldn't be skulled in the first place, and you will be safe.

 

Most problems in the old wildy still exist in todays BH worlds y'know? Like praying, safing, luring, teleporting, etc etc.

So wait, it seems like everyone wanting the old wild back just wants to be able to attack non PvPrs? Really, that's what it's about? Killing guys that aren't really in the mood to fight another player, but just happen to be in one area of the map that allows it?

 

Look, I appreciated when Jagex made the abyss and how it tried to make PKers into a monster of sorts. But when you have all the problems of PvP that the wilderness brought, it just took away the fun of the game. And sorry, a Level 85 spell (teleblock) to counter a level 21 spell (teleport) is asinine. If they bring back the wilderness ie PvP on all servers it better have better game mechanics that what it did.

 

For example

 

1. You need a Red Skull to attack other non-Red skulled players.

2. While a Red Skull, you cannot teleport while in the wilderness.

3. While Red SKull, your protect from and protect item prayers do not work

4. You can only get a Red Skull at the Zammy Priest in the level 5 wild, and you must keep the red skull for a minimum of 1 hour game time.

5. The Zammy mage can change a red skull back to a white skull if you ask him, which then goes away after 20 minutes.

6. Anybody can attack a red skull., but non-red skulled players get white skulled in the process.

7. Level restrictions of the wild apply except any red skull can attack another red skull anywhere.

 

In other words, you want to pk on a non-pk server it's gonna be with some pretty steep penalties. However, you then get the benefit of attacking non-pkers in the wilderness.

Alternatively, players could learn to respect the fact that the wilderness is dangerous and not enter it if they don't wish to run the risk of being attacked.

 

Logic is much more simple than a new, most likely flawed, game mechanic.

[i_trollz_u]

Hi, NukeMarine. Do you know why you get skulled upon entering the abyss? So you can lose all your items if you die, duh! That proves it was intended to be dangerous, and not just a convenient way to RC. Besides you can buy back pouches now, which might make RC pking a money drain :!:

 

As well, you don't get skulled unlesss you attack first. That's the way it worked, which means that if you don't feel like killing others, you wouldn't be skulled in the first place, and you will be safe.

 

Most problems in the old wildy still exist in todays BH worlds y'know? Like praying, safing, luring, teleporting, etc etc.

So wait, it seems like everyone wanting the old wild back just wants to be able to attack non PvPrs? Really, that's what it's about? Killing guys that aren't really in the mood to fight another player, but just happen to be in one area of the map that allows it?

 

 

Yes. That's exactly what was fun about the old wild. Sorry, but its the truth and the way it was designed. Try it out yourself. It's fun. It really is. Don't skill in the wild if you don't want to be attacked. I don't see what's wrong with wanting to destroy anybody that steps over the ditch. It's really fun.

 

Look, I appreciated when Jagex made the abyss and how it tried to make PKers into a monster of sorts. But when you have all the problems of PvP that the wilderness brought, it just took away the fun of the game. And sorry, a Level 85 spell (teleblock) to counter a level 21 spell (teleport) is asinine. If they bring back the wilderness ie PvP on all servers it better have better game mechanics that what it did.

 

 

What problems? Rcers lose their glories? I don't see the problem with teleblock being lvl 85 mage either....

[Jehosaphat]

Meh, I'm done here. I was always horrible at speech & debate, and it appears I have epic-failed yet again.

 

Have fun with your wilderness, have fun taking other people's stuff. Just don't expect me to advocate it.

[muggiwhplar]

Honestly, it's just a game, and no one really gets "hurt" if they die in the wild and lose their items. You're accountable for your own actions/possessions when you step into the wild.

 

When it comes to choosing whether or not to attack people who mean you no harm, it's basically a choice of morality. But like I've said, it's just a game, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal if you attack an "innocent" player. That player, after all, is well-aware of the dangers he/she's up against.

 

It's not like there's a strong correlation between RS-morality and RL-morality.

[Pete Party]

Unique of wildy was that when you killed someone you get their items. No game had that!

[Donkeykong23]

Never found out, and can't be bothered to read this thread so...

 

Any word about gravestones/player deaths? Will we be able to loot them again?

[NukeMarine]

Look, I appreciated when Jagex made the abyss and how it tried to make PKers into a monster of sorts. But when you have all the problems of PvP that the wilderness brought, it just took away the fun of the game. And sorry, a Level 85 spell (teleblock) to counter a level 21 spell (teleport) is asinine. If they bring back the wilderness ie PvP on all servers it better have better game mechanics that what it did.

 

 

What problems? Rcers lose their glories? I don't see the problem with teleblock being lvl 85 mage either....

Again, I'll reiterate that it's a bs poll that'll accomplish nothing but show how many account names there are in the game.

 

First, the wilderness is more than just the abyss area or the Green Dragons by the graveyard. However, at least people are being honest this this is nothing about Pkers vs Pkers. It's about being able to kill others with minimal to no risk to yourself. Anyway, I like how protect prayer, protect item, teleports, etc. are being defended by these hard core pkers here. Yeah, ok, it's my OPINION that pkers that wish to attack non-pkers should give up quite a few of the protections that are afforded non-pkers. I'm talking more than just 3 item save here. Getting pre-assigned skulls (to prevent abuse of 3-item save) and removing teleport, protect item, and protect prayers would have went a long way to improve the Wilderness of old.

 

Teleblock is great as a level 85 spell if it's about a Pker using it against a non-pker. However, pkers shouldn't be able to teleport at all. That's just too big of a safety net.

 

Oh yeah, how will the "keep what you kill" system be put in place to avoid real world trading.

[Kimberly]

Never found out, and can't be bothered to read this thread so...

 

Any word about gravestones/player deaths? Will we be able to loot them again?

 

Nothing official yet.

[i_trollz_u]

So, the old wild was just like /b/?

 

No? Just a more interesting and unique place than the rest of runescape.

 

 

The problem is that it would be increasing the risk of preexisting content (such as the Chaos Tunnels) while keeping the reward the same.

 

Not for the pker.

 

Anyways, I agree with NukeMarine. In terms of combating RWT, reintroducing the old wilderness is just taking a step backwards. Jagex would need to relocate and rework numerous features added to the wilderness after open pking was removed in order to make the appealing to the players. I'm not sure that its worth going to that much trouble simply because they want to shoehorn pking back into the wilderness. Whatever happened to the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" mentality that Tipit users have had for so long? The current system is not broken, and the old system was not perfect. There's no need to make things the way they were. It seems to me that most players have simply been blinded by the rosy tint of nostalgia.

 

 

I think pvp right now is pretty broken. I don't know about you, but lagville pking and putting all the pkers into a giant cage with safe areas 3 squares is a disgrace compared to what pking in the old wild was like. Not to mention the drop system and this crap with DP and EP. I can't get good drops unless i lose a bunch of money or wait an hour? What?

[Red_Eyed6]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG