Michael Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Spears were made obsolete with ring classes, so aren't a good melee bind any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifflin Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be. You're right in saying that condition 2 shouldn't be met if a team is competent but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is. Not accounting for sub-optimal circumstances and continuing to operate as normal is the same as ragequitting because of a bad first half. Being able to make the most of a bad situation is important. It's part of your duty as a keyer to form a competent team. If you know that you yourself aren't the best then you need to make sure that your DPSers are adequate. It's much better to fully avoid a bad situation then to have to deal with one. I guess this is part of a greater trend in DGS where it seems like there are more "still learning" people in the clan then ever. It becomes even more important as a keyer to make sure that there are enough good people that you can count on so that you can key optimal dungeons. People don't die on the boss because they are 4 manning, they die because they have wasted prayer and food during the floor and don't have the supplies for bossing. That or they don't know how to do the bosses properly. In short, they are bad DPSers. Given that DGS is a clan where people are given the opportunity and expected to improve I wouldn't exactly blacklist people, I would just make sure that my team is never full of people that still need a lot of improving. My best advice to you is to be more selective with your teams. It's even more important to have a good team if you are still improving as a keyer. That way, you will be able to complete dungeons in the optimal way, having DPSers who can boss it's found and allowing you to have faster dungeons. Edit: This is my personal opinion, keep in mind that I am also still learning how to key. PM me in game anytime It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet. That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notasoupbowl Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be. You're right in saying that condition 2 shouldn't be met if a team is competent but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is. Not accounting for sub-optimal circumstances and continuing to operate as normal is the same as ragequitting because of a bad first half. Being able to make the most of a bad situation is important.DGS is largely about learning to be competant. If you are a [cabbage] dnger, you will have to make armour and cook to survive. Since we want people to improve their skills - we disallow this.Obviously, in some situations for the inexperienced dnger it'd be better to cook or make armour for the short term xp/h.But in the long term, this is only hurting your abilities and xp/h in the end. Your example is a much less extreme version of this - it may save you xp in the short run, but is inefficient because you need to learn combat techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urza285 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hey Nifflin don't worry I still have to worry about learning to key. By the time I start hitting up dung again I'll be nearly maxed in all other stats. Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]Visit my Blog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la la la Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I thought it would go without saying, but I had to kick someone today because they didn't know which direction was southeast versus southwest. NEVER EAT SOGGY WAFFLES (north, east, south, west clockwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHappySeeker Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be. You're right in saying that condition 2 shouldn't be met if a team is competent but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is. Not accounting for sub-optimal circumstances and continuing to operate as normal is the same as ragequitting because of a bad first half. Being able to make the most of a bad situation is important.DGS is largely about learning to be competant. If you are a [cabbage] dnger, you will have to make armour and cook to survive. Since we want people to improve their skills - we disallow this.Obviously, in some situations for the inexperienced dnger it'd be better to cook or make armour for the short term xp/h.But in the long term, this is only hurting your abilities and xp/h in the end. Your example is a much less extreme version of this - it may save you xp in the short run, but is inefficient because you need to learn combat techniques. If this is the case, I'll have to retract what I said. I can actually understand the reasoning behind this. In hindsight, I'm not even sure why I thought this was a good idea. My learning process for Dawn of War (a game in which I played at the top level after a short period of intense training) involved playing against my mentor over and over again, ragequitting the moment I had made a mistake and essentially replaying the initial conditions of the previous match until I had ironed out every single error individually. It worked so I don't see why it wouldn't in this case. EDIT: Rebecca Black's new song... isn't actually that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notasoupbowl Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 EDIT: Same thing. You're treating it as if I'm claiming that condition 2 is common while I'm only laying out what to do when both conditions are in place, however unlikely that would be. You're right in saying that condition 2 shouldn't be met if a team is competent but the fact of the matter is that not everyone is. Not accounting for sub-optimal circumstances and continuing to operate as normal is the same as ragequitting because of a bad first half. Being able to make the most of a bad situation is important.DGS is largely about learning to be competant. If you are a [cabbage] dnger, you will have to make armour and cook to survive. Since we want people to improve their skills - we disallow this.Obviously, in some situations for the inexperienced dnger it'd be better to cook or make armour for the short term xp/h.But in the long term, this is only hurting your abilities and xp/h in the end. Your example is a much less extreme version of this - it may save you xp in the short run, but is inefficient because you need to learn combat techniques. If this is the case, I'll have to retract what I said. I can actually understand the reasoning behind this. In hindsight, I'm not even sure why I thought this was a good idea. My learning process for Dawn of War (a game in which I played at the top level after a short period of intense training) involved playing against my mentor over and over again, ragequitting the moment I had made a mistake and essentially replaying the initial conditions of the previous match until I had ironed out every single error individually. It worked so I don't see why it wouldn't in this case. EDIT: Rebecca Black's new song... isn't actually that bad.It also requires those who are good at combat mechanics & dging to sacrifice xp/h on your behalf, which is greedy of you. So I have no problem with those who like to dng inefficiently or slowly, but they can't be in dgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toki_Hakurei Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 *reads first post a few more times* My God I suck at this skill despite having 85 DG and a hood. * I use a spear.* I gather things (herbs and food mostly) to drop off at the starting room too much.* I bother making myself armour.* My router will spike on me at random and force my computer to lose connection thus making people think I raged for no reason. Click the "Signed in as..." go to Manage ignored users, copy paste Toki_Hakurei.I'm pretty sure having boobs is the most broken super power anyone can ever have. 0_0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stommel Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 *reads first post a few more times* My God I suck at this skill despite having 85 DG and a hood. * I use a spear.* I gather things (herbs and food mostly) to drop off at the starting room too much.* I bother making myself armour.* My router will spike on me at random and force my computer to lose connection thus making people think I raged for no reason. I'd advise practicing a few dungeons following dgs' guidelines outside of dgs before using the cc. First impressions in dungeons are very important and being forced to change virtually everything round instantly sounds like a recipe for disaster [minus the useful gloves] Join "DGS" Guest Clan Chat for Dungeoneering Floors | Accepting all tipiters who are Willing to Learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calisme Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I thought it would go without saying, but I had to kick someone today because they didn't know which direction was southeast versus southwest. NEVER EAT SOGGY WAFFLES (north, east, south, west clockwise). To be fair, I think he was going southwest of our current location(back to HT), instead of gating the southwest portion of the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaaps1 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Personally, I've always been a fan of Never Eat Sour Watermelons ~It's Super Effective! (The Zaaps Blog)~My YouTube Channel, where you get to watch me go around and make a fool out of myself and all comp capersGuides:~Yeah I wrote them once~Suggestions:~Yeah I made those once~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lose No Hope Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Personally, I've always been a fan of Never Eat Sour WatermelonsWhat about these? While going the wrong direction is a big derp, I don't think it's enough of a reason to temp ban someone. I wasn't in the dg though, so I don't know exactly what happened or if he derped before that also. [hide]unbinding green's kidneys for ltk's heartdo you farm guam like me sir ltk[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaaps1 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Personally, I've always been a fan of Never Eat Sour WatermelonsWhat about these? While going the wrong direction is a big derp, I don't think it's enough of a reason to temp ban someone. I wasn't in the dg though, so I don't know exactly what happened or if he derped before that also. who said anything about kids. ~It's Super Effective! (The Zaaps Blog)~My YouTube Channel, where you get to watch me go around and make a fool out of myself and all comp capersGuides:~Yeah I wrote them once~Suggestions:~Yeah I made those once~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 The player in question has had more complaints made about him than pretty much anyone else in the past month. It was kinda like the straw that broke the camel's back. He's perm banned now due to the massive number of complaints about his inability to improve, his personality, and his very immature name. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toki_Hakurei Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 As much as how obvious this clan can be extremely useful to tip.iters it just isn't right for me. Too much regulation takes the fun out of it for me. I mean the guides help A LOT. It's just that the way this clan works doesn't match my pace. ...Well that and my router can be full of crap which sometimes causes me to disconnect which equals me being useless to you 35% of the time. Click the "Signed in as..." go to Manage ignored users, copy paste Toki_Hakurei.I'm pretty sure having boobs is the most broken super power anyone can ever have. 0_0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calisme Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 That's fine, at least imo. DGS exists just as much to teach people great methods of dungeoneering as to form the strong CC where dungeons with competent players are found quickly. If everyone was more informed about how to DG well, that'd be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadinko Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times. Miseryism | Completionist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy_Bunyip Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times.who told you that?we encourage the 30 second rule when it comes to suiciding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadinko Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times.who told you that?we encourage the 30 second rule when it comes to suiciding. The last few dungeons ive done 5+ deaths seems to be the norm. Making ragers is 'time wasting'. Miseryism | Completionist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy_Bunyip Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times.who told you that?we encourage the 30 second rule when it comes to suiciding. The last few dungeons ive done 5+ deaths seems to be the norm. Making ragers is 'time wasting'.last few dungeons with who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajdood Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times.who told you that?we encourage the 30 second rule when it comes to suiciding. What is this '30 second rule'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjkl Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times.who told you that?we encourage the 30 second rule when it comes to suiciding. What is this '30 second rule'?if u lose 30 seconds by trying to not die then u shuld dieidk how you would lose 30 seconds by trying to not die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyw3000 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 fyi, the 4 POTENTIAL rooms we missed out was blocked by a merc, and we already found boss. that would have been +1% max, and it's not worth a possible -11% due to deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stommel Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Can someone tell me how being told to suicide 5 through the whole dungeon and missing out 4+ rooms is 'efficient dungeoneering'. Way too much focus on getting good floor times. Efficient dungeoneering doesn't mean completing the map, or getting the maximum amount of xp from a map, it means aiming for the best experience per hour (or minute, or any tiime unit). Sometimes a room like a merc/ramo/ghosts will appear towards the end of the map, which only contains a small branch, and would take the majority of the team to complete, risking deaths and taking a non-negligible amount of time. For the best experience rates these rooms would normally be left. If you come across the room earlier in the dungeon but it only leads to a dead end some keyers would try and get it done asap during idle time, and others would wait and see if it's needed (at the risk of it being on the critical path) so as not to waste unneccessary time. Getting 5+ deaths when you're aiming for xp on the otherhand isn't great. Alot of that can be combated by experience and knowledge of combat mechanics, although some bosses can be life leechers (gulega, trio, geo etc) Join "DGS" Guest Clan Chat for Dungeoneering Floors | Accepting all tipiters who are Willing to Learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifflin Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Also, you shouldn't be dying that much. You need to learn how to pray properly, loot losslessly and dsp well in general and it will cut down on deaths. PM me in game anytime It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet. That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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