TIF is bit over-moderated

[Range_This11]

Like I said in the Efficiency Troll thread, I don't think TIF is a police state or totalitarian nor do I think that the Mods or Admins are infallible. I really can't believe the community is dividing on this issue. People are taking sides and it's turning into Us and Them which will do nothing but cause bad things for this site and the people that enjoy it here, myself included. Both sides are bickering like god damn children. Grow up and act like adults.

There's been a lot of trying to cooperate. They brick walled and then banned a few of the people seeking compromise. That's not something they could have expected not to blow up at them.

I don't pretend to know anything about people being banned or any of the PRIVATE conversations that went on regarding that, but I know damn well it's not that simple and I think you do too.

I've had copypastes of pretty much everything said, so I daresay I understand the situation better than you. Needless to say, the admins were ridiculously uncooperative.

It takes two to tango and I doubt you or any others in question are innocent just as much as I doubt the admins and moderators made unbiased decisions. Regardless, we've gotta put all that garbage behind us and move forward as community or this place will never be the same.

[green9090]

The community is already [bleep]ed. Either some bans need to be undone or we're leaving. Simple.

[All_Is_Great]

The community is already [bleep]ed. Either some bans need to be undone or we're leaving. Simple.

 

Then leave. Simple.

[Jaffy1]

Yes, I agree, I have tried to stay impartial and not get too mixed up in all of this but...

 

It doesn't look well at all when you (the moderation) isn't public. Because the people you take action against often are. We have all been watching and from the perspective of most users it seems, what has happened is really wrong.

 

I love this website. You have no idea, there is no way I would be playing this game if not for this. But that is why I feel it is all the more important that somehow this is resolved, that there is closure.

 

I have tried to stay impartial as well and not mix in this, but would you not agree that this trolling and spamming does no good either?

What should be done (by both sides) is to go outside, bash a tree until that frustration is gone, go back inside and converse like adults. I'm sure neither party is unreasonable, but the behaviour by certain users portraying themselves as the victims was indeed rather hurtful and upsetting. I'm not going to pretend to know the details of what transpired, and honestly I do not want to know. Mods require evidence for their actions, records of things like that are made, and consequences follow for those involved. I understand that people are curious and want to know what's going on, but won't that only cause more drama?

 

To those of you that are demanding things, please just stop for a minute, calm down, think about what you want and then say it like a mature person and not a troll.

Just remember that we're all human.

 

It takes two to tango and I doubt you or any others in question are innocent just as much as I doubt the admins and moderators made unbiased decisions. Regardless, we've gotta put all that garbage behind us and move forward as community or this place will never be the same.

Like I said, we're all human. :thumbup:

[Levon_]

The community is already [bleep]ed. Either some bans need to be undone or we're leaving. Simple.

 

Then leave. Simple.

 

i am

[green9090]

The community is already [bleep]ed. Either some bans need to be undone or we're leaving. Simple.

 

Then leave. Simple.

Don't worry, we are. There's just still some packing up to do, guides to get removed, people to alert, etc.

[Range_This11]

I'm not trying to say "Well, then leave" because frankly I don't think anyone should and I would hate to see anyone go, but I don't understand what point you're trying to prove by staying if you're already adamantly set on leaving?

[Levon_]

I'm not trying to say "Well, then leave" because frankly I don't think anyone should and I would hate to see anyone go, but I don't understand what point you're trying to prove by staying if you're already adamantly set on leaving?

 

read above

[Nifflin]

 

I understand that people are curious and want to know what's going on, but won't that only cause more drama?:

 

No, it will let me, and I presume others like me, to judge the situation for ourselves and gauge whether or not we want to be part of this community.

 

The way it is now I honestly don't trust the mods here if they keep us in the dark.

 

Since this effects everyone, everyone has a right to know.

[Range_This11]

I'm not trying to say "Well, then leave" because frankly I don't think anyone should and I would hate to see anyone go, but I don't understand what point you're trying to prove by staying if you're already adamantly set on leaving?

 

read above

Yeah I see that now, I guess I just don't understand you guys. Is what you're doing for the greater good? Or is it just to leave this place with a scorched earth policy?

[Obtaurian]

May I make a suggestion? There should a confirmation screen when creating new topics in general guides. The confirmation screen should say "are you sure you want to give up your intellectual property to Tip.it?"

 

Then we could save everyone the hassle of having their guides stolen. :)

[muggiwhplar]

A few days ago I would have been upset seeing all the "efficiency trolls" leaving (or being banned).

 

Though as this argument wore on, and they became less and less mature/rational, I no longer have any sympathy for them or feel a need to defend their arguments which I once shared with them.

 

...Just my two cents >_>

[curtis95112]

Yes, I agree, I have tried to stay impartial and not get too mixed up in all of this but...

 

It doesn't look well at all when you (the moderation) isn't public. Because the people you take action against often are. We have all been watching and from the perspective of most users it seems, what has happened is really wrong.

 

I love this website. You have no idea, there is no way I would be playing this game if not for this. But that is why I feel it is all the more important that somehow this is resolved, that there is closure.

 

I have tried to stay impartial as well and not mix in this, but would you not agree that this trolling and spamming does no good either?

What should be done (by both sides) is to go outside, bash a tree until that frustration is gone, go back inside and converse like adults. I'm sure neither party is unreasonable, but the behaviour by certain users portraying themselves as the victims was indeed rather hurtful and upsetting. I'm not going to pretend to know the details of what transpired, and honestly I do not want to know. Mods require evidence for their actions, records of things like that are made, and consequences follow for those involved. I understand that people are curious and want to know what's going on, but won't that only cause more drama?

 

To those of you that are demanding things, please just stop for a minute, calm down, think about what you want and then say it like a mature person and not a troll.

Just remember that we're all human.

 

 

I see where you're coming from but really I think you need to make some of the records public. Here's what I see as an outsider. Some high-profile, well respected players have heated arguments with the administration and moderators. They start disappearing one by one. The remaining players raise hell about the disappearances. Mods claim all action taken was just. This claim is hotly contested. Mods say that posters don't know what happened. Posters ask for info. And so on.

 

We'll see drama of course, but I don't see a way out without drama. Unless you think decimating the efficiency crowd isn't drama of course.

 

This is perhaps the best Runescape forum there is. Please keep this from becoming a pile of rubble.

[DarkDude]

I've had copypastes of pretty much everything said, so I daresay I understand the situation better than you. Needless to say, the admins were ridiculously uncooperative.

 

Yes, spending over an hour talking to someone trying to resolve an issue while various members of the side were spamming the forums is really being uncooperative :thumbup:. No, saying "NO WE DEMAND A FORUM AND WILL SETTLE FOR ANYTHING ELSE" is being uncooperative, and guess what, that's not from our side.

 

Always makes me smile when a thread gets closed for having no discussion value (usually after a few posts discussing its lack of discussion value), I wonder if people know how a forum is supposed to work. If a thread has no discussion value, it dies, thats the entire point of the forum.

 

It would die, if people didn't constantly post crap in the topics forcing us to lock them. Just like when there's a spambot some people think it's a brilliant idea just to quote them and reply to the topic. Yes, that's really helping the cause :rolleyes:.

 

With regards to posting parts of what people have done. I will not say who posted what but it's just a very small amount from several of the people who have been banned/warned and seem to be the people arguing the strongest against us. And no, we will never fully reveal everything, the posts are removed from public for a reason so it'd be completely pointless having an entirely open system.

 

"Firstly, you are stupid, and thus did deserve to die. And seconly, why would any tip.it members care for scum like you that make PvP 1 on 1 fighting impossible."

 

"

PRO TROLLING LEVEL 120

 

YOU WIN THIS AWARD

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QTp2oQ0Q0Xc/StuJVjIjE3I/AAAAAAAAARg/tQh-RPsKTCU/s400/Golden+Internet+Troll+Award.jpg"

(Image not put in tags here, but was in original post).

 

The next 3 are from the same user in a short period of time, high content posts right here.

 

"How are you not banned yet, troll?"

"Isn't it obvious? FOR TEH LULZ!!111!11shifteleventyone!!"

"

Reading, learn it.

 

[bleep]ing reading, how does it work?"

That one is good as it involves one user quoting a spam post by another user both of whom are involved.

 

Here are some more from various other users involved:

 

"SCAMMING SCUM

 

SCAMMER

 

SCAMMING NOOB"

 

"Just go away, nobody wants you here. Chaotic weapons."

 

That's just a small selection from just a few of the users. There's much worse things that I can not post here for obvious reasons. These are all very small amounts of what they've been warned for, most of them having at least 5+ warnings, most of which have come in recent months. If after being told to not post like that you continue posting like that, what do you expect to happen? Be given a medal?

[Noxx]

 

I understand that people are curious and want to know what's going on, but won't that only cause more drama?:

 

No, it will let me, and I presume others like me, to judge the situation for ourselves and gauge whether or not we want to be part of this community.

 

The way it is now I honestly don't trust the mods here if they keep us in the dark.

 

Since this effects everyone, everyone has a right to know.

I'm guessing they're too chicken [cabbage] to post anything because it might just prove a few undeserved bans

[Jaffy1]

May I make a suggestion? There should a confirmation screen when creating new topics in general guides. The confirmation screen should say "are you sure you want to give up your intellectual property to Tip.it?"

 

Then we could save everyone the hassle of having their guides stolen. :)

 

As a Crewbie I can honestly tell you that we do not "steal" your knowledge and information. Any user info we use is voluntarily given and the user in question is credited on the pages where his or her information is used. Please don't start having a go at the purple side now too. :(

 

 

A few days ago I would have been upset seeing all the "efficiency trolls" leaving (or being banned).

 

Though as this argument wore on, and they became less and less mature/rational, I no longer have any sympathy for them or feel a need to defend them.

 

...Just my two cents >_>

Pretty much how I feel.

[Nifflin]

 

That's just a small selection from just a few of the users. There's much worse things that I can not post here for obvious reasons. These are all very small amounts of what they've been warned for, most of them having at least 5+ warnings, most of which have come in recent months. If after being told to not post like that you continue posting like that, what do you expect to happen? Be given a medal?

 

First, some of those are out of context. Don't pretend they aren't, I've recognize them and I know. The fact of the matter is it IS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING when you are trying to help people and trolls interfere. This makes people mad, it's natural.

 

Please, try posting a little in H&A and you will understand.

 

Isn't the bottom line what everyone contributes to the community? Don't the contributions of individuals-who-I'm-afraid-to-name-specifically-for-fear-of-being banned outweigh their... zeal when dealing with certain types. They tried to explain in the locked thread how it is possible to become frustrated easily in the environment here. They are 100% right in that regard.

 

Edit: @ Jaffy

The copyright thing is in regards to a forums guide, not a website guide. He wasn't attacking you.

[Adam007]

 

I understand that people are curious and want to know what's going on, but won't that only cause more drama?:

 

No, it will let me, and I presume others like me, to judge the situation for ourselves and gauge whether or not we want to be part of this community.

 

The way it is now I honestly don't trust the mods here if they keep us in the dark.

 

Since this effects everyone, everyone has a right to know.

I'm guessing they're too chicken [cabbage] to post anything because it might just prove a few undeserved bans

Be thankful staff here is reaching out and being as transparent as possible. For you to suggest that they show you their moderating records is ridiculous. What you don't see on these forums is the countless amount of spam, obscenities, and pointless threads that are removed to bring up the overall quality here. The staff here has absolutely no tilted agenda or anything. Trust me, I used to be a mod and crew, I've seen the inside. In fact, it's better than it's ever been in the years I've been posting here. Honestly the staff here want to make this a community where you can effectively communicate with each other. For you select few who obnoxiously insist something else is going on, just leave if you don't like it here. Nobody will notice.

[All_Is_Great]

The community is already [bleep]ed. Either some bans need to be undone or we're leaving. Simple.

 

Then leave. Simple.

Don't worry, we are. There's just still some packing up to do, guides to get removed, people to alert, etc.

 

And more trolling right? A mod just moved your thread away from Gen. Discussion, does that mean TIF is now totalitarian???? :rolleyes:

 

Other people come and go, why do your group have to be so special and make such a big deal about leaving.

[SixFootOne]

To me it seems there is too much importance put on a few users. Frankly everyone here can and will be replaced at some point. Although i have only officially been here for a few years i have been on them much longer and seen users come and go. Get banned, complain about it and life at tip.it went on.

 

I am glad that the staff moderate enough to keep most spam and trolling post out. I certainly don't enjoy reading some of the garbage that has built up. My view on the moderation has not changed. I still feel this is one of the best communities around.

[DarkDude]

 

That's just a small selection from just a few of the users. There's much worse things that I can not post here for obvious reasons. These are all very small amounts of what they've been warned for, most of them having at least 5+ warnings, most of which have come in recent months. If after being told to not post like that you continue posting like that, what do you expect to happen? Be given a medal?

 

First, some of those are out of context. Don't pretend they aren't, I've recognize them and I know. The fact of the matter is it IS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING when you are trying to help people and trolls interfere. This makes people mad, it's natural.

 

Please, try posting a little in H&A and you will understand.

 

Isn't the bottom line what everyone contributes to the community? Don't the contributions of individuals-who-I'm-afraid-to-name-specifically-for-fear-of-being banned outweigh their... zeal when dealing with certain types. They tried to explain in the locked thread how it is possible to become frustrated easily in the environment here. They are 100% right in that regard.

 

Edit: @ Jaffy

The copyright thing is in regards to a forums guide, not a website guide. He wasn't attacking you.

 

Someone's contribution of content does not give them the right to break the rules. If you've been warned for breaking the rules for one thing and continue doing that exact same thing over and over you can NOT complain when you eventually get banned for doing it.

 

Also, how is telling someone they're stupid and calling them "scum" taken out of context? None of the posts there can be taken out of context. Calling someone a troll and asking why they're not banned yet. I can't think of a single situation where that's acceptable and the context would make that ok. Can you please give me an example of that? Along with telling someone to go away and no one wants them there.

 

Please tell me how they are out of context.

[muggiwhplar]

 

That's just a small selection from just a few of the users. There's much worse things that I can not post here for obvious reasons. These are all very small amounts of what they've been warned for, most of them having at least 5+ warnings, most of which have come in recent months. If after being told to not post like that you continue posting like that, what do you expect to happen? Be given a medal?

 

Isn't the bottom line what everyone contributes to the community? Don't the contributions of individuals-who-I'm-afraid-to-name-specifically-for-fear-of-being banned outweigh their... zeal when dealing with certain types. They tried to explain in the locked thread how it is possible to become frustrated easily in the environment here. They are 100% right in that regard.

 

Is it acceptable to become frustrated in such a situation? Yes.

Is it acceptable to show your frustration by throwing out insults? No.

Does acknowledging your frustration justify your actions? No.

[Nifflin]

This is in reference to the H&A forum, but applies to a lot of discussion here.

 

OP asks a question.

Person A gives an excellent answer.

Person B (troll) argues that something far inferior, is better.

Person A takes the time to in detail explain why their correct answer in in fact correct. This is the annoying part is it can take massive time.

Person B fails to comprehend and still insists their method is best.

 

Now, if person A walks away now they are doing OP a disservice. OP cannot know which is actually best if they are asking in the first place.

 

So what options do they have, abandon their hard work and the OP or argue.

 

This doesn't seem so bad as an isolated incident, but when it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL IT WILL DRIVE A PERSON CRAZY. That is how it is out of context. When you swim through a sea of trolls and burst at a one or two of them, it shouldn't be as big a deal. I know the user they were directed at. He often posts in ways that mean he is either a troll or stupid. It is very, very, very frustrating.

 

This is a huge issue with the H&A forum, that people are allowed under the rules to give absolutely incorrect advice.

 

When you dedicate so much to helping the community it is really horrible to have to deal with this sort of crap.

[All_Is_Great]

Don't try to act like that's the only thing which happens.

 

What started it all for me was a particular thread about Cave Slimes. The OP wrote the guide, and considered a decent moneymaker for low levels. Never said it was the law to obey his guide, etc. Then some particular users on this forum troll'd that thread to no end and repeatedly insulting OP. That was what made me have such a bad impression of "efficiency trolls".

 

In your example, no one hurled insults. In which case, the best thing to do would be to ignore. Although player B is wrong, he did not use personal attacks. In the end, it is at discretion of the OP, the person who's ASKING the question, to decide what to do. If person A's arguements were sound, then obviously OP would choose it instead of person B.

 

EDIT: More often than your scenario, I see instances where OP (average midlevel player) asks a question... let's say "how do I make money at my levels?"

Person A comes along and gives the "best" advice, "get 85 dg and kill frosts" or "max melee and do nex"

Person B says something like, I notice you have a decent hunter level, maybe try hunting grenwalls.

Person A comes back and says no skilling is worthwile.

Person B says what if OP enjoys skilling, I'm just giving an alternative.

Person A then starts hurling personal attacks at B, calling him/her a moron for suggesting terrible advice.

 

And I will repeat my first sentence:

 

Don't try to act like the "efficiency clowns" are 100% of the time victims.

[DarkDude]

Surely if Person A's answer was so excellent in the first place they would have included all the information as to why their suggestion is the best in their original post and not have to make an additional post detailing these reasons. If you've explained it well enough then the person asking the question will be able to see the evidence as to why that method is the best and there's no need for an argument to take place. So if Person B comes in with another method of doing whatever they would then need to also back up their point as to why it's better than Person A's method.

 

Or would that be too sensible of a solution?