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11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports


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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.

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I actually like the trend of higher tier armours being only good in certain situations. This is where RS has been heading for ages now, EOC just brought a new era of it. Someone made the point of missing the time where highest tier armour was best everywhere.... That was true in RSC where you could mage/range and melee in rune armour. Since RS2 rolled around this has changed and it should continue you change and I think if you want to keep playing you have to embrace that change.

 

Yeah sure, POP will degrade like crazy in combat - so what. I get gear that I can hunt nex in without any money invested. That pretty much makes up for all that. And time spent in POP - give me a break. After you reach bowl the maximum time you spend in POP is 3x a day, at a maximum of 30min altogether. If this is a significant time investment for you then RS is not your game indeed.

 

Also, after you reach pincers trade goods will start rolling in. To whoever said POP is pretty much dead now with the degration times being as it is. Way to go into hyperspace mode, armours is a small piece of POP that I like, scrimshaws are a much more interesting piece of content which I can see myself using continuously.

 

tl:dr - POP armour degration is not that big of a deal since you will get a metric f*ckton of trade resources in pincers.

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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.

 

Moneymaker how?

As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.

The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

 

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

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Not only was the tradeable set doomed from the beginning, but the idiotic degrade time makes it *completely* useless. No sane high level will spend months on this for an armour that lasts an incredibly small amount of time(one post on the RSOF said that their tetsu went to 0, in the same time his Virtus only lost 9%) with defenses that are not needed anywhere. We might as well all grab Barrows sets. We were promised High Level gear that would be the best in the game, not some ridiculous troll-joke that we find out (after 2 months!) was really just some cosmetic stuff.

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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.

 

Moneymaker how?

As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.

The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

 

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

How exactly do you invest loads of time? It takes a minute to put 2 boats under way for 8 hours, for a total of 3 times every day. So yeah, 3 minutes a day. And for that you will have a steady dribble of resources coming in, resources that will make for sell-able items(armor, scrimshaws and soup).

 

As said earlier, the money used for repairs, when used right, is actually still very low for pop armor. What most people don't understand, however, is how much money it costs to own high priced non-discontinued equipment. You can lose it when you die(DC). You can't use the money to merch. The price will always steadily decrease. An update can make you lose a ton. That's alot of things to consider even before we get to the price- and really, you need the whole set with gloves and boots to make a significant difference, and the gloves and boots are atleast as expensive as the other parts. Pop armor is extremely good for how much effort it takes to obtain it.

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A) With the way that gravestone operates nowadays, the problem of death is a joke and non-existent. Unless you happen to walk (with multi-toggle set) into a cabal of Pkers waiting for you in the Wildy, chances are you aren't going to lose your precious Nex set.

 

B) All tradeable items eventually crash, that is a risk you assume as buyer, so Nex functions as it is intended to be. PoP does not. It isn't the best armour in the game (as it was promised to be), nor does it last 12 hours (as it still claims to do so). Therefore, we PoP'ers have a right to complain about false advertisement and deceit; Nex armour users do not.

 

C) Your argument that it(PoP) is extremely good might be at least be conceivable if PoP functioned how it purports, to lasts 12 hours (no one in RS imagined that to mean "significantly less than, or only a small part, of those 12 hours"). The time factor is simply not dismissible no matter how hard you try. That PoP apparently degrades after one trip of KK is pathetic. No "ifs, ands, or buts".

 

Edit:

 

So even if we assume that your argument is perfectly sound, it is still completely irrelevant and the wrong argument to be having. You are arguing that PoP is too good for what you perceive to be limited effort to obtain it. We are claiming that Jagex promised us certain things and have failed to deliver them. If you wish to respond to that by claiming, "Well, that's a ridiculous thing for Jagex to have promised you", then to that we would respond "Well, they shouldn't have made a promise that they would not keep, upon the basis of which they lured us into this activity, and extracted P2P service revenue from many of us, who were losing interest until they implemented PoP."

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Moneymaker how?

As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.

The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

 

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

How exactly do you invest loads of time? It takes a minute to put 2 boats under way for 8 hours, for a total of 3 times every day. So yeah, 3 minutes a day. And for that you will have a steady dribble of resources coming in, resources that will make for sell-able items(armor, scrimshaws and soup).

 

As said earlier, the money used for repairs, when used right, is actually still very low for pop armor. What most people don't understand, however, is how much money it costs to own high priced non-discontinued equipment. You can lose it when you die(DC). You can't use the money to merch. The price will always steadily decrease. An update can make you lose a ton. That's alot of things to consider even before we get to the price- and really, you need the whole set with gloves and boots to make a significant difference, and the gloves and boots are atleast as expensive as the other parts. Pop armor is extremely good for how much effort it takes to obtain it.

You're underselling the time and effort that will be needed for this. First, after all upgrades are done the only voyages worth considering are the trade good voyages and MAYBE the 25k xp voyages. Let's be generous and say you can find a plate voyage a day along with maybe bones and spices. We'll even assume 100% success. That's still 40 days of visiting port to make a full tetsu set in addition to what bones, spices and other armor items you can pull in.

 

If you visit three times a day, that's teleport to Port Sarim, go to the port, go through the voyage results (maybe do randoms though they're nerfed pretty bad now), reroll voyages to get trade goods, set up ships for sail. It seems a tad longer than two to three minutes. Even then that's two to three times a day for 40 days. Players of that high a level might be expecting a million per day return on investment. Considering you get that from the few moments of Slayer shopping, seaweed, and buying jewelry and shards on GE, it's not that high an expectation.

 

Now, making that armor is bound to be easier than trying to mine the level 78 armor from the Forinthy dungeon revenants (not sure, never tried it). Those armor have better stats and 10 sets sell for less than PoP armor (except statius). I would hope Jagex improves the system of ports to match effort with reward. As said, people really like this mini-game. Hate to think a poorly thought out tradeable armor and scrimshaw system combined with the faster than normal degrading effect ruins all that well received good will.

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It should also be noted that first you have to make it to the Pincers, you also have to gather scrolls (you don't get the opportunity, a scroll voyage, everyday, and when you do get them you often fail them, or have to select them at the cost of relinquishing a storyline mission or a trade good voyage). Some days, you only get 1 Adventurer. Then after you have gotten the scrolls, and even completed the storyline missions, you end up with, assuming you used FOTS(and it did +10% not -10%) and a Merchant, you should have 141 Plates, 106 Lacquer/Chi. That still means you have to hunt the rest down in sets of 5, which is potentially another few months if you add up everything. PoP is most certainly no cakewalk.

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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?

So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.

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A calculator? Would it not be simple enough to simply do it yourself, mathematically, on a normal calculator?

 

Ehum... I do not know the order and I mess that up easily. Just for convenience sake =S.

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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?

So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.

 

"x*1.1="

 

There is your calculator for FOTS type it into google or a calculator replacing x with the resource number.

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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?

So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.

 

"x*1.1="

 

There is your calculator for FOTS type it into google or a calculator replacing x with the resource number.

 

I also meant in combination with merchant and perhaps even totems.

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I think PoP will remain relevant because it offers the best xp/hour you can get for the associated skills. XP book special voyages might be look down upon atm, because getting items is top priority for most people at the moment. However, once you have all the upgrades and scrolls and have completed all the story missions, the xp book missions are a good alternative. I haven't looked in the actual numbers, but if you spent on average like 1 minute to send out a xp book mission for 20k xp, you are looking at 1200k xp/hour. Making items from trade goods give also big chunks of xp. For example, I think for people going for 200m in the associated skills, PoP is a very relevant training method.

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That's still simple, round down answer at each stage.

1) X*1.01=x

2) Repeat 1 1-3 more times subject to number of totems using x instead of X

3) x*1.Y

4) x*1.1

 

X is base resource.

x is the previous answer.

Y is the merchant percentage so .3 for Jade

 

So, for example, a 3 plate mission with 4 totems, merchant and FOTS:

 

3*1.01= 3.03= 3

3*1.01= 3.03= 3

3*1.01= 3.03= 3

3*1.01= 3.03= 3

3*1.3= 3.9= 3

3*1.1= 3.3= 3

 

You can pretty much ignore totems on everything other than 100+ missions tbf as 1% of <100 is always <1 therefore rounds down.

 

But to give another example say 600 Jade mission (assuming cherry tree)

600*1.01=606

606*1.01=612

612*1.01=618

618*1.01=624

624*1.3=811

811*1.1=892

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A) With the way that gravestone operates nowadays, the problem of death is a joke and non-existent. Unless you happen to walk (with multi-toggle set) into a cabal of Pkers waiting for you in the Wildy, chances are you aren't going to lose your precious Nex set.

 

B) All tradeable items eventually crash, that is a risk you assume as buyer, so Nex functions as it is intended to be. PoP does not. It isn't the best armour in the game (as it was promised to be), nor does it last 12 hours (as it still claims to do so). Therefore, we PoP'ers have a right to complain about false advertisement and deceit; Nex armour users do not.

 

C) Your argument that it(PoP) is extremely good might be at least be conceivable if PoP functioned how it purports, to lasts 12 hours (no one in RS imagined that to mean "significantly less than, or only a small part, of those 12 hours"). The time factor is simply not dismissible no matter how hard you try. That PoP apparently degrades after one trip of KK is pathetic. No "ifs, ands, or buts".

 

Edit:

 

So even if we assume that your argument is perfectly sound, it is still completely irrelevant and the wrong argument to be having. You are arguing that PoP is too good for what you perceive to be limited effort to obtain it. We are claiming that Jagex promised us certain things and have failed to deliver them. If you wish to respond to that by claiming, "Well, that's a ridiculous thing for Jagex to have promised you", then to that we would respond "Well, they shouldn't have made a promise that they would not keep, upon the basis of which they lured us into this activity, and extracted P2P service revenue from many of us, who were losing interest until they implemented PoP."

Noone before you argued that ''jagex promised us...'' was in any way something a sane person would consider relevant. Also i'd like to see proof that pop armor doesn't last 12 hours. As far as i'm aware of, the problem here is that nex gear can last up to 100 hours in the same conditions pop armor lasts 12, not that the 12 hour spec is wrong.

 

And still, people look at the nex armor stats and just based on a little hit bonus, think it's always better everywhere, no matter how wide the between the defenses is. Ignoring boots/gloves and the set bonus(as pop armor users would, in most cases not be able to afford them anyway), nex gear has a 2% DPS increase with chaotic maul, and that is in balance with a whopping 17% more defense on the pop sets. The problem here isn't that pop armor is bad- it's spectacular. HOWEVER, due to the content we have in game right now, it ends up being better.... nowhere, and more to the point, void armor, which is the only armor in game with any kind of significant offensive boost might actually be the best armor in game.

 

So really, if jagex ever releases a t90 boss, the pop armors would likely be the best, but right now, they are just statistically the best. Also, whether you like it or not, pop armor will always be much, much cheaper to own and maintain.

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You can't just ignore the set damage boost.

 

Right now, Ports armour will be at +14 damage (Nex boots and gloves) while Nex armour will be at +74. The difference of +60 is a little over 3% of your chaotic maul base damage (60/1941), or almost 5% boost (60/1215) to your drygore rapier which is a much better weapon in places where Ports armour is even worth considering. I'm not sure how the damage is added to off-hands.

 

I don't see the next tier (90) boss being better with ports armour, considering that void still rules Nex and KK, KK being tier 90 I should think.

 

On the subject of time taken to get Ports armour:

Take a character maxed for bossing (max combats, all relevant spells/abilities/quests/equipment unlocked) with otherwise base 80 stats and no Ports armour.

You can do Ports starting at 90 prayer, certainly. Slayer and herblore are likely candidate for pvm-focused players as well. But runecrafting, thieving, fishing? Getting those stats 80-90 for Ports alone is ~3.3m xp in those skills, amounting to 30+ hours each for fishing and runecrafting alone. Without runecrafting and fishing, your aquisition of plate and chi will be slowed tremendously. Most days, you don't even roll a particular resource from regular voyages. Gathering armour would take months.

 

The total real time taken might not be very long compared to, say, 25 hours of MA. It'll still be quite a few hours, especially considering you'll be waiting for voyages to return (and there will be a few minutes between them all the time, random component takes care of that). Your daily crew/voyage review, checking the ships, random event and such - the total is easily an hour or two per week.

The time it takes from start to finish is important and determines difficulty, because people can never give up for all that time. Farming, for example, is considered a fairly tough skill to max even though it is both fast and profitable. The same thing is true for Shattered Heart and such.

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I think you should really consider starting a new account from 0, and from that perspective, you'd have the pop sets before you could even wear them, where as money usually isn't as easy to come by at first. Also, skilling is so ridiculously easy nowadays that the level 90 reqs(of which you don't need all 6) are pathetic, it's also hard to consider skilling time as part of that used to obtain the armor, and the skills needed for high level bossing to make money for nex gear are atleast as high if not higher. Also, it's really hard to consider dygore and set bonus into this equation because pop armor seems to be meant for players that can't afford those, so in comparison maul and no set bonuses is much more realistic.

 

As for a higher boss, i reckon if they ever make an actual boss that does damage based on defense and not reflexes pop armor will be better. Right now, they have just constructed another highly flawed system that makes a t45 or t55 the best in game.

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Players bleat on about the lack of high-level content in RuneScape, Jagex eventually release a 90+ skill req D&D, and now 90 is "ridiculously easy" and "pathetic".

 

I don't dispute you wanting to remove skilling time to 90 as a factor in PoP armour, but at some point you have to stop moving the goalposts about what constitutes "high level content".

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Well, I'm an old-school player, and though I'm extremely close to being maxed (3 level away), this whole "levels are so easy to get" nonsense doesn't work on me. I got most of my levels, particularly the expensive and difficult ones, at a time when they were darn hard to get.

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Well, I'm an old-school player, and though I'm extremely close to being maxed (3 level away), this whole "levels are so easy to get" nonsense doesn't work on me. I got most of my levels, particularly the expensive and difficult ones, at a time when they were darn hard to get.

I double your oldschool and raise you mine. I've likely worked atleast 4x as hard for everything than you'd have to today. Long story short, noone cares.

 

Players bleat on about the lack of high-level content in RuneScape, Jagex eventually release a 90+ skill req D&D, and now 90 is "ridiculously easy" and "pathetic".

 

I don't dispute you wanting to remove skilling time to 90 as a factor in PoP armour, but at some point you have to stop moving the goalposts about what constitutes "high level content".

Stop making skills easier, then.

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