Future Update Discussions

[strilmus]

shit happened, we're still dealing with it, moving forward we just deal with it in smaller increments rather than trying to tackle the entire thing at once and have a beta server so that people always have access to builds so that they can offer input

 

it's called learning, it's not perfect, things still suck, but we move forward rather than hiding in the past

 

well, at least we WERE moving forward before they decided to revert everything lol

 

"hey you know what would fix the changes? not actually changing the things that need to be worked on, and being so butthurt that we put back everything wrong with the old system"

 

"now if you'll excuse me i have a massage session with Nex"

[Saradomin_Mage]

not an update teaser, but something cool about TTs

 

Ok so Treasure trails...

 

Each time you complete a trail you get rolls at the rare item list. Easy have 2 rolls, medium 3 and hard 4. The chance of landing from each roll is 1/20 so Easy rewards are effectively 1/10, medium 1/6.66 and hard 1/5.

 

If you do not land on the rare table you are given an item from the non-rare table, which includes the prayer book pages, firelighters, purple sweets, composite bows and trimmed magic and strength amulets. You are also randomly given either 0,1 or 2 extra items from the non-rare table.

 

Most rare rewards are the same rarity but I'll list the exceptions for each tier.

 

Easy rewards are mostly 1/55 except elegant pieces which have a 50% chance of being male or female items.

 

Medium rewards are 1/44 again with the exception of elegant pieces. See above.

 

Hard rewards are 1/67. One of these 67 items is a spin on the super rare table which is comprised of the various gilded pieces, the various noted potions and then a further sub table for third age.

 

So effective drop rates for generic items on the rare table in each tier are.

Easy: 1/550

Medium: 1/293.04

Hard: 1/335

 

The chance of hitting the third age table from the megarare table is 1/10 making *any* third age item 1/3350 and a specific item 1/40200.

 

Before you ask, these won't change with the clue scroll expansion and most new rewards will follow the same trend.

Mod John C, [qfc]17-318-288-65354165[/qfc], page 14.

 

RS3 trails probably just give you a "free" roll, then make more rolls for more TT items.

[Sy_Accursed]

Is it just me or are his odds math a bit wrong?

 

Wouldn't 2 rolls each with 1/20 odds still amount to 1/20, not one in 10? because it'd be 2/40.

1/10 implies the 2 rolls combined gives 2/20 odds, which isn't true if the chance of EACH roll is 1/20...

 

That or his wording is misleading.

[Miss Lioness]

And they were saying the odds for a 3Age item was 1/100k =d Good to hear that it is 1/3550. Might pick up on that and try to get myself a 3age item when I am going for 120 Slayer just to get some money on a more fun way :)!

 

@Sy: You are forgetting that you are GUARANTEED to get at least 1 treasure trail specific item. I think that's where it comes from.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Is it just me or are his odds math a bit wrong?

 

Wouldn't 2 rolls each with 1/20 odds still amount to 1/20, not one in 10? because it'd be 2/40.

1/10 implies the 2 rolls combined gives 2/20 odds, which isn't true if the chance of EACH roll is 1/20...

 

That or his wording is misleading.

Uhhh...

 

You have two rolls.

 

Each roll has a 1/20 chance of making a clue item.

 

Conversely, the chance of not getting a clue item per roll is 19/20.

 

Since you have two rolls, the chance of not getting a clue item at all is (19/20)^2, which is 90.25%, and thus conversely your chance of getting at least one clue item off an easy clue is 9.75%, or almost 1/10.

[Platinum_Myr]

It's not *quite* 1/10, but it's close. The approximation of doing 1/20 and 1/20 = 2/20 = 1/10 is often a fatal mistake in probabilty math, but it's pretty close in this example.

[Leik]

Hi everyone, there have been a few changes to some bosses in the combat beta which can be seen listed below :)

 

Nex

-The main tank for some of her multi-target attacks take 50% more damage.

-Damage from Smoke bullet, Shadow Smash and Ice prison all increased.

-Blood Phase sacrifice counter reduced by 1, making this 4 attacks until she begins to siphon allowing Nex to cycle attacks in this phase slightly faster.

-Wrath on death damage increased to be potent once again.

 

Kalphite King

-When the Kalphite King spawns it can now randomly choose what to start with (melee/ranged/magic).

-An issue with stunning the Kalphite King too much causing a 'double green' (killing the voker instantly, then re-greening them whilst they are dying) to happen has potentially been resolved.

-Lowered damage from minions spawning in the area.

 

Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin GWD

-Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin have all had their main style of attack buffed significantly to match what they previously would of hit on players if they were not protecting from the main attack style. Having the correct prayer on will reduce 95% of damage however.

 

Dagannoth Kings

-The Dagannoth Kings are now far more accurate and hit harder, however 95% of the damage can be blocked by praying the correct style against them.

 

Queen Black Dragon

-The standard fire breath damage has been increased.

-Her head bite attack will now deal more damage.

-The damage taken in the side of the extremely hot flames attack attack has been increased.

-The Tortured Soul's melee and special attack damage has been increased.

[qfc]360-361-392-65368444[/qfc]

 

Goddamnit. Really not happy with those changes.

[Steph]

 

Hi everyone, there have been a few changes to some bosses in the combat beta which can be seen listed below :)

 

Nex

-The main tank for some of her multi-target attacks take 50% more damage.

-Damage from Smoke bullet, Shadow Smash and Ice prison all increased.

-Blood Phase sacrifice counter reduced by 1, making this 4 attacks until she begins to siphon allowing Nex to cycle attacks in this phase slightly faster.

-Wrath on death damage increased to be potent once again.

 

Kalphite King

-When the Kalphite King spawns it can now randomly choose what to start with (melee/ranged/magic).

-An issue with stunning the Kalphite King too much causing a 'double green' (killing the voker instantly, then re-greening them whilst they are dying) to happen has potentially been resolved.

-Lowered damage from minions spawning in the area.

 

Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin GWD

-Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin have all had their main style of attack buffed significantly to match what they previously would of hit on players if they were not protecting from the main attack style. Having the correct prayer on will reduce 95% of damage however.

 

Dagannoth Kings

-The Dagannoth Kings are now far more accurate and hit harder, however 95% of the damage can be blocked by praying the correct style against them.

 

Queen Black Dragon

-The standard fire breath damage has been increased.

-Her head bite attack will now deal more damage.

-The damage taken in the side of the extremely hot flames attack attack has been increased.

-The Tortured Soul's melee and special attack damage has been increased.

[qfc]360-361-392-65368444[/qfc]

 

Goddamnit. Really not happy with those changes.

 

I agree, 95% is too much.

[Ammako]

I don't really see a problem with making bosses harder.

However, the problem is that many of those bosses were meant to be killed with mid-level equipment (people in barrows and Lv. 70-75 weaponry), but instead they're balancing them with nex/ports/lv 90 weapons in mind. It doesn't make sense to require equipment better than what the boss drops to be able to kill the boss.

 

Sure, if they make it so people can 3-man or 4-man the GWD bosses without much trouble it would make it much too easy for maxed players in top tier equipment to camp them for hours.

 

But there's an easy way to fix that: restrict the players to barrows/godswords/sol. That way, they can balance the bosses assuming that the players will be in Barrows with Lv. 70-5 weapons while making it impossible for near maxed players to solo camp them for hours since they won't be able to use better equipment (they would have the advantage of higher stats, but that's it.)

[Alg]

I don't really see a problem with making bosses harder.

I can think of a few... Least of all the fact that there's really nothing to be gained from doing it. Are they trying to fight power creep by making it so that you need endgame gear to fight bosses that drop level 70-80 gear? I'm sure there's a universe where that's a sensible strategy, but this isn't it.

[helring]

It seems like for main gwd bosses they're just trying to make it so that soul split is not as useable. If anything thats a dent against high level players and probably won't have an effect on mid-levels.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

Hi everyone, there have been a few changes to some bosses in the combat beta which can be seen listed below :)

 

Nex

-The main tank for some of her multi-target attacks take 50% more damage.

-Damage from Smoke bullet, Shadow Smash and Ice prison all increased.

-Blood Phase sacrifice counter reduced by 1, making this 4 attacks until she begins to siphon allowing Nex to cycle attacks in this phase slightly faster.

-Wrath on death damage increased to be potent once again.

 

Kalphite King

-When the Kalphite King spawns it can now randomly choose what to start with (melee/ranged/magic).

-An issue with stunning the Kalphite King too much causing a 'double green' (killing the voker instantly, then re-greening them whilst they are dying) to happen has potentially been resolved.

-Lowered damage from minions spawning in the area.

 

Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin GWD

-Bandos, Armadyl, and Saradomin have all had their main style of attack buffed significantly to match what they previously would of hit on players if they were not protecting from the main attack style. Having the correct prayer on will reduce 95% of damage however.

 

Dagannoth Kings

-The Dagannoth Kings are now far more accurate and hit harder, however 95% of the damage can be blocked by praying the correct style against them.

 

Queen Black Dragon

-The standard fire breath damage has been increased.

-Her head bite attack will now deal more damage.

-The damage taken in the side of the extremely hot flames attack attack has been increased.

-The Tortured Soul's melee and special attack damage has been increased.

[qfc]360-361-392-65368444[/qfc]

 

Goddamnit. Really not happy with those changes.

 

 

I read about that in the beta. I am not sure how I feel. When EoC came out, I did feel it basically made preexisting boss significantly wimpier. For instance, whereas before you had to pray protection prayers at bosses such as Armadyl and Sara and soloing was somewhat challenging, post-EoC you could just sit on SS all day without any trouble. So this is certainly something that should/could have been done immediately post-EoC to help things along. However now it's been way too long and a lot of those bosses are medium level at best, so trying to make them difficult for higher-level players is a fundamentally pointless activity, as things like Godswords are just no that useful to someone like me. It'd be kind of senseless if you needed Drygores or Seismics to camp effectively weapons that are needed for level 70-85 player in a Runescape where you level faster than ever before.

[Ammako]

I was talking about making bosses harder while not making it so you *need* higher level gear.

For example, like I said in my post, if you restricted the use of high level equipment and forced players to use Barrows/Godswords/Staff of Light/etc. at best to kill Kree, Graardor, K'ril or Zilyana, then the boss would effectively be made harder while not actually making it harder on lower level players.

 

Allow people to use Lv. 90 gear on the latest bosses such as Kalphite King, Vorago and RotS, heck allow them to power through Slayer with them if they wish (don't really see a point in forcing people to use low level gear for Slayer monsters, and what are you going to use high level gear for if you can only use it to boss more), then allow players in ~Barrows/Lv. 70-75 weapons to kill the GWD bosses effectively in groups of 3-4.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Well, the bosses are at about the same level of difficulty for mid level players, right? Since mid levels are stuck with protect overheads as opposed to Soul Split. The only guys this really hurts are the high level players who can camp all day with Soul Split, because forcing them to use an overhead raises their required healing by a crapton.

[primadog]

The problem with end game bosses is their defence are just way to low with level 90 gear ingame:

 

Defense Levels:

• 90 Vorago, ROTS
• 85 KK, Legios
• 80 QBD, Nex
• 75 GWD

 

NPC Armour Rating = 10/3 * ( DLevel^3/1250 + DLevel * 4 + 40)

 

Thus, their armour ratings:

• 3277 Vorago, ROTS
• 2904 KK, Legios
• 2565 QBD, NEX
• 2258 GWD

You're reading this right: players have better defence than most ingame bosses.  In fact, even max level Dungeoneering mobs have better defense (4040 Armour Rating) than all the ingame bosses!

 

Level 99 Attack/Ranged/Magic with level 90 gear gives 3670 accuracy (4211 with overload), this means even against Vorago players can hitting 69% (79% with overload) of the time!  The situation is even worse when bosses have a weakness.

[helring]

The problem with end game bosses is their defence are just way to low with level 90 gear ingame:

 

Defense Levels:

• 90 Vorago, ROTS
• 85 KK, Legios
• 80 QBD, Nex
• 75 GWD

 

NPC Armour Rating = 10/3 * ( DLevel^3/1250 + DLevel * 4 + 40)

 

Thus, their armour ratings:

• 3277 Vorago, ROTS
• 2904 KK, Legios
• 2565 QBD, NEX
• 2258 GWD

You're reading this right: players have better defence than most ingame bosses.  In fact, even max level Dungeoneering mobs have better defense (4040 Armour Rating) than all the ingame bosses!

 

Level 99 Attack/Ranged/Magic with level 90 gear gives 3670 accuracy (4211 with overload), this means even against Vorago players can hitting 69% (79% with overload) of the time!  The situation is even worse when bosses have a weakness.

 

But the advantage that bosses have over players is not supposed to be their armour ratings and def. They tend to have a lot more lifepoints and some have devastating specials that players can't match. 

[Wkw]

Did some nex last night on the beta.

 

What I can tell, blood phase is significantly harder as melee, because you cant queue abilities when running. Actually any boss you need to melee and do any kind of running is harder.

 

The rest is much easier, though. Soaking from armor plus more hp, plus adr not draining from eating... much easier.

[Quasar]

The problem with end game bosses is their defence are just way to low with level 90 gear ingame:

 

Defense Levels:

• 90 Vorago, ROTS
• 85 KK, Legios
• 80 QBD, Nex
• 75 GWD

 

NPC Armour Rating = 10/3 * ( DLevel^3/1250 + DLevel * 4 + 40)

 

Thus, their armour ratings:

• 3277 Vorago, ROTS
• 2904 KK, Legios
• 2565 QBD, NEX
• 2258 GWD

You're reading this right: players have better defence than most ingame bosses.  In fact, even max level Dungeoneering mobs have better defense (4040 Armour Rating) than all the ingame bosses!

 

Level 99 Attack/Ranged/Magic with level 90 gear gives 3670 accuracy (4211 with overload), this means even against Vorago players can hitting 69% (79% with overload) of the time!  The situation is even worse when bosses have a weakness.

Splashing too much is bad gameplay

[V O R K]

How about instead of complaining you actually provide constructive criticism?

 

I wish I didn't have to remind you that this is a BETA. It's there to try things out. Things aren't set in stone.

 

Oh no it's not working the way I want it to, on first try, in beta! So what?

 

 

BTW have you actually tried it out for yourself? All it does is that when you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown on abilities just like what happens when you use an ability (a 3-tick cooldown starts.)

 

Instead of losing 10% adrenaline whenever you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown. Pre-EoC, when you ate food, it used up an "action", if I can say it that way (as in, if you ate food, you had to wait a bit before your character attacked again, you couldn't attack while simultaneously eating.)

The difference here is that this forces a 3 tick wait between eating and attacking, while before you had to wait like a couple seconds.

 

In most cases it *barely* affects the speed at which you use abilities. At worst, you'll end up taking 0.6 seconds longer to do your next attack. Big deal! (It also interrupts channeled abilities.)

 

Yeah that's the point, next week it's something differnt, the week thereafter they nerf it back, then it's buff time, then lets throw it all out the window.

 

"So how many times have we had to re-learn this combat system again? "

^1000

 

Also when they mean updating minigames, they throw a graphical overhaul and they're done with it.

 

In the last update they stated it's "too much coding time" to rework PC.

 

let them fatten their pockets with their SOfcancer/TH bullshit but actually putting in some work? nah

[helring]

So they're putting in constant work trying to improve the combat system and thats bad, but then you yell that they're not putting any actual work in. The issue seems to be that they're not putting the resources exactly where you want them to go.

[Ammako]

I'm not too sure you know what a beta is for, Fork.

The whole point *is* to scrap everything every week until you get something good.

[Alg]

They're getting to the point where they only have the resources to fix things that aren't broken, though.

[strilmus]

i'm still wondering why they decided to take the caps off of food though

[Yoko Kurama]

I'm not too sure you know what a beta is for, Fork.

The whole point *is* to scrap everything every week until you get something good.

 

So they're putting in constant work trying to improve the combat system and thats bad, but then you yell that they're not putting any actual work in. The issue seems to be that they're not putting the resources exactly where you want them to go.

 

That seems like a fundamentally bad strategy. The whole point should be to focus on problematic areas that are known as such and fix them up while preserving as much of the good stuff as possible. Doing something completely different every single week based on the popular whims of a minority of forum posters is a bad idea, creates needless speculation, panic, confusion, and takes away confidence in the beta. Start with simple things, such as stuns, imbalance between range, mage, and melee, the special abilities and so on. Don't just randomly change everything every week, it accomplishes nothing, and is not enough time to accurately assess the major changes they are making.

 

Right now it seems like they have very little direction, and are just going in whichever way the wind blows.

[V O R K]

So they're putting in constant work trying to improve the combat system and thats bad, but then you yell that they're not putting any actual work in. The issue seems to be that they're not putting the resources exactly where you want them to go.

 

Yeah, i'm a bit angry :(. 

 

Just a tad jealous over invigorating wilderness content versus changing math. It's good what they're working on (and the global cooldown you just explained is great, sadly i r poor and don't have the moolah for a decent laptop to access beta )':

 

I like EoC but to me it seems they're not trying to improve the system, rather, completely overhaul to implent Legacy which is a gimmick (imo:$) and it's a shame since the EoC (still, I believe) has a lot of potential.

 

And ofcourse Ping but over 600 pages of feedback has been given in what almost 9 months? yet little goes into the direction what has been suggested. 

 

Surprises me with the little budget the OSRS team has and invigorate a complete area, add new monsters and various resources yet it's too hard to rework the LP from Pest Control monsters or even the portals in RS3? I don't know how much more feedback we have to give or who to support to see any actual gameplay evolvement rather then playing with numbers of abilities/graphical reworks.

 

Last weeks article makes me wonder.