200M in all Skills

[xpx]

Nobody is doing it now, though. Name me somebody who is actually working towards raising their agil past 99 and is doing it steadily over time.

 

By the way, it would be completely inefficient to use just anybody. Pro team or no team.

 

It also might work if you have a group that does a couple hours every day, but this is using my adaptable idea instead of doing from empty to full. In practice, if it's better to do agility with the horn, it's more efficient to prevent your horn from becoming empty.

Nobody is likely doing it as they see agility as a rubbish skill and are waiting or it to be nerfed further(just like suomi got killed somewhat by the horn update). Effigies might also be better than horn, too.

 

Pro teams are not necessary. You need a good healer and defender, but apart from that, for waves 1-5/6, the two attackers and collector can be halfwits and not slow the team down.

 

I don't think it's realistic to build your life around the lives of others, and really, that is in no way necessary.

[Redorok]

Some people are clearly overestimating the human element- if people do it for purely selfish reasons and it works for one minigame(dungeoneering), it will also work for BA, not to mention, BA is much easier than dungeoneering(where people do 2-4 hour rows) as only 2 people need to be focused, basically.

 

Btw, for charging the horn, you don't want to do full waves, rather only 1-5 or 1-6 and reset. Nothing lost if someone leaves early(and it's not too hard to have a backup). Getting people for BA really isn't as hard as many say it is, particularly if you are organized.

 

I don't agree with your first point because it doesn't work that way in the practical and long-term world. Furthermore, there has never been any proof that doing only the first waves is better, only people claiming things without any evidence whatsoever. From personal experience I found doing full waves(perhaps without the queen) is the fastest way.

 

But I shall shut up now because this is going nowhere. :-P

[Jebrim]

Pro teams are required if your interest is to maximise the amount of Xp/hr you received... There's no point in sacrificing an hour or more each time around if you don't need to. Also, not everybody thinks Agility is a [cabbage]ty skill. I run a clan full of people who enjoy training Agility past 99. I've found that most people who hate Agility hate it because they're looking at it the wrong way. Until you reach that trance point, it's really hard to understand. Also, completely irrelevant of my previous arguments, I personally do feel that one would be far less bored doing 200m Agility if they didn't have to take a break from it all the time. Destroying the rhythm of grinding is actually what typically causes people to log out or quit the goal to begin with. The best way I can say to describe this is that it's relaxing and people enjoy relaxing. This is based not only on my personal experiences, but also on the experiences of the hundreds of people I've trained Agility with. You don't set a 200m agil goal (or even 100m) unless you actually enjoy the relaxing portion of grinding. Disrupting that will only end up in worse gains overall and likely the quitting of the goal if you're using xpx's method.

[Rawrsicles]

Just because cave crawlers and agility don't have the common incentive for people not to do the method doesn't mean they can't be used for an accurate comparison. The only thing I see is that no one has done or has any proof, well this discussion I think originally started when Jebrim didn't agree that agility with BA horn is faster. Well I think it has been proven to be faster, if it's possible to do BA waves in approximately 4 hours than that should speak for itself. As for the "setting up and walking there than training agility" (not quoted exactly). The setting up is taking out your BA gear which takes a minute max lol, than games necklace to BA where you have your clan waiting because you have set this up before hand (I know this seems to ideal but I'm just trying to put into perspective how little time it takes). Also about training agility afterwards, the point was it could be trained at any time and when your horn is empty and/or there is a good BA team available then to repeat and rinse lol.

 

I'm sure someone will do it one day, until than let the math speak for itself. Just because some people can't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible. Also we were not talking about practical methods, more along the line of ideal hence efficiency discussions.

[Thai_tong]

Pro teams are required if your interest is to maximise the amount of Xp/hr you received...

I think the argument is to get over 72k not to maximise. You yourself said over 72k

 

Also, not everybody thinks Agility is a [cabbage]ty skill. I run a clan full of people who enjoy training Agility past 99.

A full clan isn't a massive amount of people. Get over 1000 people and see if anyone would do this. Because that's what we are talking about, you say it will *never* be done, a clan of idk 300 people is not a huge amount. And BTW if I underestimated the size of your clan that is still irrelevent as there still needs to be a huge amount.

 

Destroying the rhythm of grinding is actually what typically causes people to log out or quit the goal to begin with.

What he is saying is that kingduffy will fail because he swaps skills.

 

I hope you realise that gaining 20m agility doesn't even have to be their goal for them to achieve 73k. If they do 1 full horn of agility then woodcut for 2 months and come back to agility they still have not harmed the above 72k figure. If you remember from before in this thread you need to fill a horn in 9 hours to get more than 72k, if 4 hours is an acceptable time with a pro team then if you have people lag out halfway through wave 7 it is still exceedingly easy to fill it in a spare 5 hours. The 4 other players can teleport to castle wars and cut ivy while they wait for the team mate to return. If you're in a clan doing an event every 2 weeks then it may take 20 months to fill the horn enough times for 20mil xp but they get there in the end.

[Jebrim]

I believe that everybody has the potential to enjoy Agility. I have helped tons of people learn to enjoy it. The biggest problem is that people look at the grinding the wrong way. Even if you guys are right about BA being better mathematically, it doesn't necessarily mean it's possible. None of the top Agility people I just asked in my clan right now actually said they'd enjoy doing Agility with BA. Without anybody actually completing Agility long-term with the BA horn, I get the impression that there must be a psychological limitation preventing it from being done. Furthermore, as I showed earlier, it is possible to do Agility consistently with the BA horn and not be required to wait by doing another skill. Going from there, it would be easily feasible to see people doing Agility with BA. It's just not happening though. There are lots of people who enjoy doing Agility long-term, but NONE that like doing it with BA. That should say something.

 

I think the biggest fault when people look at Agility is that they dislike the grinding. It's psychologically impossible to do 100m or 200m Agility while hating the grinding. One would quit the goal long before they got close. Therefore the only way to reach it is if one came to enjoy the grinding. If one enjoys the grinding, then they will hate having that grinding be disrupted. BA requires far too much attention and is so not-grindy that anyone doing 200m Agility would literally choose NOT to use it, even knowing that it may give more Xp/hr and even if they enjoy the minigame. This will ultimately culminate in people getting more Xp/day because they'll decide to stay online for longer because they enjoy Agility that much. This may sound dubious, but this is how it works in practice, not in theory where you guys tend to overlook many of the human factors or just presume certain decisions without actually having experienced it fully yourself.

 

tl;dr version:

People who do long-term Agility enjoy the relaxing that is grinding and do not wish to be disturbed by other activities. This is not just me.

[Jebrim]

Nobody is going to get 200m Agility gradually over time over the course of 3-5 years while taking a break as often as you guys are claiming they should. It just doesn't work like that. You do big chunks or you don't do it at all. You embrace the grinding or you don't succeed. Until you learn to enjoy the grinding, you will NEVER get 200m Agility. I've been heavily involved in the Agility community for years and have experienced many people aim for post-99 Xp. I know what works and what doesn't. People would willingly choose to not do BA because they'd rather just sit back and relax instead.

 

Until you've completed your own 100m+ Xp in a slow and non-afkable skill, you really can't understand.

[Quyneax]

Some people like being efficient. For example I can afk monkfish, but it just feels wrong :S (except when I need strange rocks). So yeah, agility with a horn appeals to some people, just like straight-up grinding does to others. I wouldn't say that's very much an argument in what is best/fastest/most efficient to get 200m in all skills though.

[Amethyst_Gem]

Another problem that has been loosely touched on is that to do it this way agility would have to be treated like farming - as something to do regularly from an early point as breaks in training other stats. you would want to spend most of your time in a chat for forming ba teams and be prepared to ditch what you are doing at fairly short notice to come and do BA whenever a really good team turned up.

 

This would mean doing it gradually over a long period of time which in turn would mean that you would expect the top players to have started doing it by now if they were planning to. Which they haven't.

 

If they left it too late they would find that they wouldnt be able to go off and do other stats by the end as there wouldnt be other stats for them to go off and do. Plus most top players seem to like to stick to one activity at a time before moving on to another.

[Amethyst_Gem]

By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

[Lemar]

No one cares, no one at all. I will be getting the most xp in June in a month and I don't really care about xp.

[Thai_tong]

By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

Thankyou for pointing that out, I think it's fixed now.

 

Telmo seems to have stopped before 200m. He's probably saving space for effigies :P Or maybe he wants to pass drumgun's title in 1 day instead of staying equal with him for months.

[Weekdiertje]

By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

Thankyou for pointing that out, I think it's fixed now.

 

Telmo seems to have stopped before 200m. He's probably saving space for effigies :P Or maybe he wants to pass drumgun's title in 1 day instead of staying equal with him for months.

 

I think he stopped because he wants to have a party, judging by his videos he has held quite a lot of 200m partys. And a party takes a little planning ofcourse

[haimonek]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

It would be epic to know what Telmomarques is planning since he isn't getting 200m, very curious :rolleyes: .

[K4ylan]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct.

[Thai_tong]

Telmo has enough samaden for 9000+ hours of mining lol.

 

maths>335m agility :P

[haimonek]

Telmo has enough samaden for 9000+ hours of mining lol.

 

maths>335m agility :P

 

Maths is not always correct only in perfect conditions (which are rare/not possible).

^PS: I meant this concerning Runescape!

[xpx]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

It would be epic to know what Telmomarques is planning since he isn't getting 200m, very curious :rolleyes: .

With the way Jebrim trains agility, he can't be treated as as expert on this matter. He doesn't train efficiently, and for this method to work, your solo purpose in runescape can't be agility, which is why he can't really speak for himself on this matter. If the only reasons for this to not work are psychological, it can still be treated as the best method of training agility, and as said, i'm in the opinion that many of the top people are either waiting for agility to be made 'better'(which is inevitable), not planning to grind the way agility is now or maybe just going to effigy it. Likewise to agility, the top players don't actively train rc either(for similar reasons).

[Jebrim]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct.

 

I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct.

 

He doesn't train efficiently, and for this method to work, your solo purpose in runescape can't be agility, which is why he can't really speak for himself on this matter.

 

I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise.

 

Also, as the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Keep that in mind as you wait for future updates.

 

By the way, "efficiency" is relative to a particular goal. If my goal were to get Agility Xp as fast as I could (Xp/month), I don't feel that BA would be the best option. The amount of time investment required into learning BA and raising my combat is only one part of the equation. Nolifing should be taken into account. It would likely be impossible for any hardcore nolifer to nolife BA or Dungeoneering without leeching heavily simply because of how brain-intensive those activities are. Running around Agility courses doesn't typically require any brain work once you've got your habits in place. It's very simple to just keep moving and not think when you've been up for 30+ hours straight and haven't slept much the past week.

 

 

Here's a formal challenge: I'd like to see somebody hit a 40m+ Agility Xp month while using the horn and refilling it a complete 20+ times, or just not letting it be emptied to begin with, whichever is chosen. It's physically possible without the horn, but I doubt it can be done with it and have the player still maintain a higher Xp/hr rate than someone who didn't use the horn. Somebody needs to prove me wrong.

[xpx]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct.

 

I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct.

 

@xpx

As the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Also, I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise.

I very much doubt anyone can consistently manage that if you play 10+ hours a day, and trying to do that would likely slow down the average xp. It would be much easier to have a selection of ~20 players who all need to use the horn consistently, too, to team up every once-in-a-while to fill the full horn, thus why it's considered the primary method.

[Jebrim]

I don't get why this horn discussion is even going on >.>. If someone with 335m agility xp says it's not THAT great, it isn't, end of discussion.

 

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct.

 

I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct.

 

@xpx

As the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Also, I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise.

I very much doubt anyone can consistently manage that if you play 10+ hours a day, and trying to do that would likely slow down the average xp. It would be much easier to have a selection of ~20 players who all need to use the horn consistently, too, to team up every once-in-a-while to fill the full horn, thus why it's considered the primary method.

 

I run a clan full of top Agility ranks and, if they were willing to do BA with their training, it wouldn't be hard to schedule daily BA sessions. They play often enough to require that much. In fact, there is also a clan member (a miner) who is part of a team that does just that.

[Rawrsicles]

I don't understand why this discussion is still going on. BA with horn is simply better as shown by the math, and I'd like to add possible.

 

The only counter argument I keep seeing is that human factors would limit/hinder the process so much that it would be better to train agility alone.

 

What I have to say to that is, since when did we allow the human factor to play that big of a role in calculations for the most efficient methods? If we are going to consider the human factor for agility, just because we have someone who could be argued as an expert, than we would have to consider it for many other methods which I would say that other argued experts would consider preposterous.

[revanlives]

The reason why this discussion is still going on is that consistently throughout this thread, Thai, Xpx, and others have used perhaps impossible or at the least difficult to maintain xp rates in their calculations for the time it takes in 200m all skills. Many of the methods assume either high amounts of cash, high levels of grinding, or both (like cave crawlers).

 

However, the problem lies in that many of the top players don't even use some of these methods. For example, no one is training agility long term using barb horn-I'm 200m agil xp, got it before barb horn came out but I'd still never use it because it would interrupt training and my concentration to focus on agility alone. This may or may not apply to people who are aiming for 200m in all skills, but I will say that during my time training agility, virtually everyone who took breaks while training agility failed to achieve 200m in it. Most fell short at 30m or less xp. I could name at least 30 people who failed in that way. The ones who are 200m now are mostly people who grinded the skill out and got large chunks of xp at a time before taking breaks and then grinding some more. There is a psychological component for sure involved in long-term skills like agility, where not training other skills and concentrating on agility alone seems to help.

 

I find it interesting that some of the efficiency crowd here says that their methods work and top players can implement these methods, and yet many top players have not used many of these methods. For example, in this topic, we've seen Allar say he afk'ed ivy, Paperbag says he can't stand dungeoneering, Zarfot had said before that some of his xp rates might be difficult to maintain long-term, Suomi refuses to merch when learning to do so would help reduce the time necessary, he also last I heard does not have a fire cape or soul wars cape because he can't take the risk involved with getting those, Drumgun has 200m melees with low slay xp and is fishing rocktails right now instead of barb fishing. The funny part about this thread is, despite all of the effort involved in these xp calculators for 200m all skills, the sum total of all these methods does not seem to have applied to current top gainers. It is almost as though you are so caught up in finding the perfect, ideal training methods that you have ignored the human component in 200m all skills, and if people don't choose to do these methods, or get bored/burned out and quit in the process of completing Rs, then all of your "forecasters" on who will be all 200m first will largely miss what will happen. The current "hours to 200m all skills" and other calculators will be inaccurate as a result.

[Kingduffy]

The reason why this discussion is still going on is that consistently throughout this thread, Thai, Xpx, and others have used perhaps impossible or at the least difficult to maintain xp rates in their calculations for the time it takes in 200m all skills. Many of the methods assume either high amounts of cash, high levels of grinding, or both (like cave crawlers).

 

However, the problem lies in that many of the top players don't even use some of these methods. For example, no one is training agility long term using barb horn-I'm 200m agil xp, got it before barb horn came out but I'd still never use it because it would interrupt training and my concentration to focus on agility alone. This may or may not apply to people who are aiming for 200m in all skills, but I will say that during my time training agility, virtually everyone who took breaks while training agility failed to achieve 200m in it. Most fell short at 30m or less xp. I could name at least 30 people who failed in that way. The ones who are 200m now are mostly people who grinded the skill out and got large chunks of xp at a time before taking breaks and then grinding some more. There is a psychological component for sure involved in long-term skills like agility, where not training other skills and concentrating on agility alone seems to help.

 

I find it interesting that some of the efficiency crowd here says that their methods work and top players can implement these methods, and yet many top players have not used many of these methods. For example, in this topic, we've seen Allar say he afk'ed ivy, Paperbag says he can't stand dungeoneering, Zarfot had said before that some of his xp rates might be difficult to maintain long-term, Suomi refuses to merch when learning to do so would help reduce the time necessary, he also last I heard does not have a fire cape or soul wars cape because he can't take the risk involved with getting those, Drumgun has 200m melees with low slay xp and is fishing rocktails right now instead of barb fishing. The funny part about this thread is, despite all of the effort involved in these xp calculators for 200m all skills, the sum total of all these methods does not seem to have applied to current top gainers. It is almost as though you are so caught up in finding the perfect, ideal training methods that you have ignored the human component in 200m all skills, and if people don't choose to do these methods, or get bored/burned out and quit in the process of completing Rs, then all of your "forecasters" on who will be all 200m first will largely miss what will happen. The current "hours to 200m all skills" and other calculators will be inaccurate as a result.

 

^ what he said, but i still think it's interesting to know the quickest possible time to complete the game.

and i saw my name mentioned up the thread... i will only quit when jagex does or my health forces me too, that's all i'm saying ;)

runescape is a great past time and I really don't know what i'd do with all my free time if it wasn't here <3

[xpx]

The question with efficiency is if it's possible to gain an average of over 72k agility xp an hour(and possibly 100k), not if someone has or will do it- if it's possible on a small scale, it is possible on a large scale, thus applicable for 200m agility. Agility is a MAJOR grind, and as horn reduces the time actually training agility twofold it's DEFINITELY efficient to use the horn(it most definitely saves time too), whether someone will do it is basically irrelevant, particularly when projecting how many hours 200m in all skills will take. You can question if people have the right mindset to do this, but you can't question the method being faster than conventional agility, and that's the bottom line.

 

The 200m all skills race isn't really about efficiency- it's not a sprint, rather a marathon, and we have seen time and again efficiency fail for this goal. Does not being efficiency increase the theoretical time for 200m? ofcource not.