Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

[xpx]

 

I know you said not to rant about the binds, but even if you go full platebeard, you REALLY should be binding a chainskirt instead of a plateskirt. Plate gives so much slash and stab defense that piling more on with legs is worthless, but a plateskirt rounds it out by giving a ton of crush def. That said, did it really look like he needed the defense? I only saw him taking damage at all once, and that was from a shade. Meanwhile he was sure to have 50 salves on him at all times. I'd do plate and primal gaunts if I were him.

With all the armor and food the guy had, i thought there was for sure going to be ww3 around the corner...

 

I didn't think the keying was particularly good for the floor, mostly as he didn't really have a plan of what what to do right now all the time, while he should clearly have used the map more often to consider some moves. The gatestones were a mess at times and there were many situations where smarter gating could have saved him 10+ seconds. Overall, i'd rank the keying as average, managing something like 28 minutes on an average team. I felt the floor only had a decent time because the team helped out so much(though it's not visible trough the floor).

 

As for dpsing the floor, i felt is was awful and i'd certainly expect people that high level to do alot better. I know some of the issue comes down to having 5x 2h, 1 csb and 1 hex(and we weren't allowed to criticize binds) but i felt the speed that gds were getting done was just too slow- it's likely that every member didn't turmoil flash the entire floor and because of the uniform binds, people couldn't really prioritize in gds and that was a major reason for the lack of dps, but just in general, i would like people to be more proactive and that team was lacking in that department.

 

Also, from that video, it didn't occur to me once that a keyer would need plate+legs+laws binds, but it did occur to me that he still has things to learn about combat mechanics.

[Obtaurian]

Just changed some stuff and added some stuff to the guidelines:

 

- Clarified and added keyer requirements.

- Clarified how to get a recruit rank in the clan chat.

- Added a section on common abbreviations.

- Listed the chat mods and clarified what to do if you have a problem to report.

- Organized the rules section.

 

:thumbup:

[MrGreens]

shouldn't locc be 36-38?

[Obtaurian]

shouldn't locc be 36-38?

 

Nah, it was always anything below thunderous floors.

[bladekill133]

Did my first skype floor yesterday, 3/5 had mics (I was one of the ones that didn't). I can see how it could be faster and even more fun, but I don't know how you guys do it. I was a bit overwhelmed trying to focus both on the dung and on the conversation.

 

Just changed some stuff and added some stuff to the guidelines:

 

- Clarified and added keyer requirements.

- Clarified how to get a recruit rank in the clan chat.

- Added a section on common abbreviations.

- Listed the chat mods and clarified what to do if you have a problem to report.

- Organized the rules section.

 

:thumbup:

 

Aww darn keyer needs 100 dung now. Was gonna apply next weekend, might take me a bit longer then. My average is hovering around 30-31 anyway, need to get it a little lower. I could always not accept newbies as often to improve it though I guess :P

[Obtaurian]

Did my first skype floor yesterday, 3/5 had mics (I was one of the ones that didn't). I can see how it could be faster and even more fun, but I don't know how you guys do it. I was a bit overwhelmed trying to focus both on the dung and on the conversation.

 

Just changed some stuff and added some stuff to the guidelines:

 

- Clarified and added keyer requirements.

- Clarified how to get a recruit rank in the clan chat.

- Added a section on common abbreviations.

- Listed the chat mods and clarified what to do if you have a problem to report.

- Organized the rules section.

 

:thumbup:

 

Aww darn keyer needs 100 dung now. Was gonna apply next weekend, might take me a bit longer then. My average is hovering around 30-31 anyway, need to get it a little lower. I could always not accept newbies as often to improve it though I guess :P

 

Well, it was always 100+, but now we require keyers have some floors logged before they apply. Definitely apply when you can, though. :thumbup:

[SirIzenhime]

shouldn't locc be 36-38?

 

Nah, it was always anything below thunderous floors.

 

Most people specify when they're doing Flesh though.

[Obtaurian]

shouldn't locc be 36-38?

 

Nah, it was always anything below thunderous floors.

 

Most people specify when they're doing Flesh though.

 

Indeed.

[bladekill133]

Well, it was always 100+, but now we require keyers have some floors logged before they apply. Definitely apply when you can, though. :thumbup:

 

Oh, must've missed that. Started logging a few days ago so I should definitely have 20 in spreadsheet by the time I'm 100.

 

What happened to medals? I seem to recall reading about them in front post a few weeks ago when I started with DGS, but it's gone now.

[Andy]

Medals are at: http://grimy.freeforums.org/dgs-medals-t115.html

[dukky]

 

I know you said not to rant about the binds, but even if you go full platebeard, you REALLY should be binding a chainskirt instead of a plateskirt. Plate gives so much slash and stab defense that piling more on with legs is worthless, but a plateskirt rounds it out by giving a ton of crush def. That said, did it really look like he needed the defense? I only saw him taking damage at all once, and that was from a shade. Meanwhile he was sure to have 50 salves on him at all times. I'd do plate and primal gaunts if I were him.

With all the armor and food the guy had, i thought there was for sure going to be ww3 around the corner...

 

I didn't think the keying was particularly good for the floor, mostly as he didn't really have a plan of what what to do right now all the time, while he should clearly have used the map more often to consider some moves. The gatestones were a mess at times and there were many situations where smarter gating could have saved him 10+ seconds. Overall, i'd rank the keying as average, managing something like 28 minutes on an average team. I felt the floor only had a decent time because the team helped out so much(though it's not visible trough the floor).

 

As for dpsing the floor, i felt is was awful and i'd certainly expect people that high level to do alot better. I know some of the issue comes down to having 5x 2h, 1 csb and 1 hex(and we weren't allowed to criticize binds) but i felt the speed that gds were getting done was just too slow- it's likely that every member didn't turmoil flash the entire floor and because of the uniform binds, people couldn't really prioritize in gds and that was a major reason for the lack of dps, but just in general, i would like people to be more proactive and that team was lacking in that department.

 

Also, from that video, it didn't occur to me once that a keyer would need plate+legs+laws binds, but it did occur to me that he still has things to learn about combat mechanics.

About his average, it's probably more around 23-25 I guess (which is what I'd say mine are too) I dged with him alot (got 85-103 when he got 110-120) and he keyed like 10 larges today averaging like 23 (worst was 31 with 3 1 way, ghosts 2 mono ramo and 2 pots).

[Dragonlordjl]

What is george?

[Andy]

World gorger

[ghjkl]

If you are keying for a competent team and maxed your average should be 21-23

[xpx]

About his average, it's probably more around 23-25 I guess (which is what I'd say mine are too) I dged with him alot (got 85-103 when he got 110-120) and he keyed like 10 larges today averaging like 23 (worst was 31 with 3 1 way, ghosts 2 mono ramo and 2 pots).

He clearly benefits alot from good teams(as said about the vid), so the 28 min estimate would be with some of the average players in 3bo(/dgs). With a great keyer/great team your average should be 17-19, but it's not very difficult to average 25 minutes with that great team.

[ghjkl]

Except no surgeboxes or pray flashing.

The emphasis on dps is overstated, while being effective in dealing damage is important, it is much more important to know how to gate, move the ggs, run, and do puzzles effectively. Countless times I'm faced with ccers not knowing how to do books etc and it annoys me.

[Andy]

Then tell them how to do the puzzle or deal with it. You can't expect people to learn if you never tell them how.

[xpx]

Except no surgeboxes or pray flashing.

The emphasis on dps is overstated, while being effective in dealing damage is important, it is much more important to know how to gate, move the ggs, run, and do puzzles effectively. Countless times I'm faced with ccers not knowing how to do books etc and it annoys me.

As far as wingmanning goes(and 80% of the people in a dungeon are wingmen), i'd rank good dpsing as the most significant thing to learn. While the other things are very important, too, you can largely ignore them if your teammates are competent enough(well, 1-2 people can realistically ignore those), but everyone still has to do gd's. Proper knowledge of dpsing doesn't only include maximizing your own and the teams damage, but also covers strategies of how to stay alive and miss the least amount of time doing that.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Except no surgeboxes or pray flashing.

The emphasis on dps is overstated, while being effective in dealing damage is important, it is much more important to know how to gate, move the ggs, run, and do puzzles effectively. Countless times I'm faced with ccers not knowing how to do books etc and it annoys me.

learning dps takes time to learn.

Puzzles you learn once and it's over.

 

I don't think it makes sense to halt the DPS training to teach some puzzles.

Remember we plan to release DG videos sometime in slightly more than a month.

It's probably much more efficient to teach people how to gate, move ggs, run, do puzzles effectively through the medium of a video than it is during the middle of a floor.

Whereas the middle of a floor is probably the best time to learn DPS and safespotting techniques.

[gago]

Do you still get a medal if you have deaths?

I remember reading something about only full or -1% DGs count with 0 deaths.

[Dragonlordjl]

Do you still get a medal if you have deaths?

I remember reading something about only full or -1% DGs count with 0 deaths.

I believe it's a different medal-- it has a black stripe through it.

[Stommel]

Do you still get a medal if you have deaths?

I remember reading something about only full or -1% DGs count with 0 deaths.

I believe it's a different medal-- it has a black stripe through it.

 

Yeah, medals for floors without deaths don't have the dark ring (mine is a w/death medal)

[bedman]

I agree that good gating techniques, common sense, and quick respons are much more important than the right third bind, or safespotting techniques. As long as people gt immediately when there's a gd, dragging ggs when they need to, do puzzles efficiently, etc... I'm happy. Idc if they mess up safespotting and die once or twice cause of no prayer. That's their problem.

 

When they don't prioritize killing as they should, that's another thing cause it slows down the whole floor, but all in all, I think the time lost there is much smaller than derps concerning gating etc. ("ggs gt 95 fm quick, gate behind" => guy comes after 20 s, you move gt, and later you find out he only opened the door and didn't gate what's behind)

 

Of course, good wingmanning/dpsing takes even more than just listening. I hate it when you've got these "plants" just waiting for directions, in stead of being proactive and dragging the ggs, asking for keys, exploring paths etc.

[Andy]

Posting so keyers/wingmen/moderators can see it:

http://forum.tip.it/topic/294448-protocol-when-it-comes-to-guests-in-the-cc/

[notasoupbowl]

How many runes should I make at the start?

I probably make too many often. Usually 10 astrals (gets like 16), 40 cosmics (gets 80) and like 90 laws.

I make less if I don't get cash but I often have enough for that, and I hate going back to craft runes.

I'm thinking I probably need 60 cosmics 60 laws?