Osama Bin Laden confirmed dead

[Diesel]

Even assuming that we are able to get out of the 2 (3) wars that we're currently in and return to an isolationist foreign policy that you seem to want, there is no way that the American people will support getting rid of so many military jobs because of funding cuts. It would be political suicide.

[pal2002]

There is nothing wrong with celebrating Bin Laden's death. He is , to put it quite frankly, an evil person that has plotted 10+ attacks before 9/11 and 20+ attacks all over the world even after 9/11. So many people have lost their lives for no good reason.

 

That aside, the huge economic effects of 9/11 on the U.S. contributed greatly to the depression we're in right now. Bush spent billions on wars and lowered the interest rates to zero in the days after 9/11 in order to stimulate it. And the banks sure liked that 0 interest rate that they had to pay.

 

So, in a way, you can argue to those standing in the unemplyment line right now that Bin Laden had cost them their jobs and their home.

[sees_all1]

 

Status quo was fine at the time.

 

 

Except when the Republican president before him was the one begging congress to pass a bail out bill because his deregulation resulted in banks making extremely bad loans that screwed over the American people before collapsing the economy itself.

Get your facts straight. Deregulation didn't make banks give bad loans, liberal policies of congress did. There was a carrot and a stick: Banks were threatened for not giving loans to people that could not afford them, and banks were able to offload their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Government intervention in the free market didn't prevent the crash, it caused it.

 

Also, the crash didn't happen in 2004 when Bush was up for re-election, which is why he was re-elected. Obama's overwhelming popularity and number of votes came from people that were upset with Bush for his policies, including the bailout. Its funny, because Obama continued the policy of bailout. Get your facts straight.

 

Also we have a right to LIFE,liberty and pursuit of happiness. I agree with car insurance companies being able to discriminate on performance but not health insurance companies having the right to choose between life and death based on preexisting conditions.

A right is not a guarantee. A right is not an entitlement. But besides all of that mumbo-jumbo of language, please show me where the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" exists in the US constitution. Get your facts straight.

 

Also, forcing insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions will force them out of business. Do you understand what insurance is?

And even then, decisions on whether to treat conditions or not based on cost of treatment and expected longevity of life are made all the time. Yes, the worth of a human life is an uncomfortable subject, but numbers are attached to people all the time. Get your facts straight.

 

Its not waiting to be sick, how about this in the 07 recession lets say your dad found out he had cancer while unemployeed, and when he goes to get insurance soon as he finds a new job he is denied. Theres plenty of people whos jobs dont offer insurance/self employeed/etc. Its amazing that your the same christian guy [sorry if you take this as a personal attack but I am calling you a hypocrite and calling your morals into question] who says abortions kill innocent babies but you would rather see someone die so a corporation can keep up their billions (not millions but billions in profit). Certainly its a free market failure, a moral failure, and giving people the right to decide who gets to live and die based on when they got sick (if they had a job that offered insurance during it or not).

Its your personal responsibility to make sure your needs are taken care of- not mine, and not government's. If you're a farmer and you starve because you're too foolish or lazy to plant your crops, so be it. As far as letting people die because I don't want government to provide them with health insurance, you're overlooking the simple fact of charity.

The first school and hospitals were not constructed by governments, they were constructed by churches. Get your facts straight.

 

What is the crap hole that Obama got us in, besides government debt? [simple solution to this is to cut military spending by 90%]

We were already there, he just laid it on thicker.

Other than government debt and the deficit (which is ABSOLUTELY HUGE):

-Fighting the non-war in Libya, not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan

-Decreasing the value of the US dollar (see price of gold or oil)

-Adding tons of uncertainty and costs to US business with the passage of the un-read 2000+ page health care bill

-Threatened higher taxes to those that create the most jobs.

 

Also, military spending accounts for about $700 billion. Even if you cut ALL military spending, you would still not close the $1.5 trillion dollar deficit. Try again.

[dusky]

 

Status quo was fine at the time.

 

 

Except when the Republican president before him was the one begging congress to pass a bail out bill because his deregulation resulted in banks making extremely bad loans that screwed over the American people before collapsing the economy itself.

Get your facts straight. Deregulation didn't make banks give bad loans, liberal policies of congress did. There was a carrot and a stick: Banks were threatened for not giving loans to people that could not afford them, and banks were able to offload their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Government intervention in the free market didn't prevent the crash, it caused it.

 

Also, the crash didn't happen in 2004 when Bush was up for re-election, which is why he was re-elected. Obama's overwhelming popularity and number of votes came from people that were upset with Bush for his policies, including the bailout. Its funny, because Obama continued the policy of bailout. Get your facts straight.

 

Also we have a right to LIFE,liberty and pursuit of happiness. I agree with car insurance companies being able to discriminate on performance but not health insurance companies having the right to choose between life and death based on preexisting conditions.

A right is not a guarantee. A right is not an entitlement. But besides all of that mumbo-jumbo of language, please show me where the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" exists in the US constitution. Get your facts straight.

 

Also, forcing insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions will force them out of business. Do you understand what insurance is?

And even then, decisions on whether to treat conditions or not based on cost of treatment and expected longevity of life are made all the time. Yes, the worth of a human life is an uncomfortable subject, but numbers are attached to people all the time. Get your facts straight.

 

Its not waiting to be sick, how about this in the 07 recession lets say your dad found out he had cancer while unemployeed, and when he goes to get insurance soon as he finds a new job he is denied. Theres plenty of people whos jobs dont offer insurance/self employeed/etc. Its amazing that your the same christian guy [sorry if you take this as a personal attack but I am calling you a hypocrite and calling your morals into question] who says abortions kill innocent babies but you would rather see someone die so a corporation can keep up their billions (not millions but billions in profit). Certainly its a free market failure, a moral failure, and giving people the right to decide who gets to live and die based on when they got sick (if they had a job that offered insurance during it or not).

Its your personal responsibility to make sure your needs are taken care of- not mine, and not government's. If you're a farmer and you starve because you're too foolish or lazy to plant your crops, so be it. As far as letting people die because I don't want government to provide them with health insurance, you're overlooking the simple fact of charity.

The first school and hospitals were not constructed by governments, they were constructed by churches. Get your facts straight.

 

What is the crap hole that Obama got us in, besides government debt? [simple solution to this is to cut military spending by 90%]

We were already there, he just laid it on thicker.

Other than government debt and the deficit (which is ABSOLUTELY HUGE):

-Fighting the non-war in Libya, not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan

-Decreasing the value of the US dollar (see price of gold or oil)

-Adding tons of uncertainty and costs to US business with the passage of the un-read 2000+ page health care bill

-Threatened higher taxes to those that create the most jobs.

 

Also, military spending accounts for about $700 billion. Even if you cut ALL military spending, you would still not close the $1.5 trillion dollar deficit. Try again.

 

Wasn't this thread about Osama Bin Laden? luls.

[Guest Rob]

Rule #1 of OT: All threads eventually become a politics debate.

[Range_This11]

Or a religious debate. They're interchangeable.

[Laura]

[simple solution to this is to cut military spending by 90%]

 

Because that's a viable option right now. Right.

 

Well yes, what nation can attack the united states? China, Russia, a few others probably.

 

But most nations do not have the capabilities to launch a military offensive on our soil and if they try to we nuke them.

 

 

I ask again why do we need a military? To catch ganglike terrorist organizations in governments who want to give them safe haven, to police to world, to establish governments friendly to our own?

 

None of those seem like good reasons to spend the money we spend and risk American lives.

 

1.) if we had better homeland security 9/11 wouldnt have happened

2.) who are we to enforce our laws on people who dont want them?

3.) who are we to set up governments that dont match the will of the people living there [inb4 their government is evil and were helping them, because the regimes we set up are just as bad - Irans government today was helped along by the US]

 

Do you know what kind of security I have to go through to get in and out of post now? At least five armed servicemen per lane on every gate, which is in addition to the outsourced civilian security. I reckon that they search every third or fourth vehicle - stickers or not. Cutting the military budget is not a viable solution, especially not now.

[Orpheus]

Or a religious debate. They're interchangeable.

And all of them are [bleep]ing terrible and I'd end up ragebanning half the [bleep]wits for general stupidity. Really, they're all stupid.

[Range_This11]

Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex. Now we're paying the price--literally. Do we really need military bases in over 150 countries? Do we need to be participating in two wars? My answer is probably pretty obvious. The U.S. needs a large military if it wants to remain a super power, but stretching the country thin with exuberant military spending is not going to help us in the long run. We need to be able to do more with less.

[Range_This11]

Or a religious debate. They're interchangeable.

And all of them are [bleep]ing terrible and I'd end up ragebanning half the [bleep]wits for general stupidity. Really, they're all stupid.

Reason #1 I have NEVER posted in the religion thread. 41 pages and counting; all unread.

[Cacmypants]

, amusing response video regarding the issue.

[Naraku893]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_662281

[1_man_army]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_662281

 

Alex Jones with a wild conspiracy theory? Forgive me if I'm not surprised, the man is loopy.

[obfuscator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_662281

 

Alex Jones with a wild conspiracy theory? Forgive me if I'm not surprised, the man is loopy.

First thing I thought when I saw that face.

[mcneilp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_662281

Christ his voice is annoying.

As interesting as everything he said is, I don't believe it personally.

[Dheginsea]

Rule #1 of OT: All threads eventually become a politics debate.

 

 

Or a religious debate. They're interchangeable.

 

ya that's true but i prefer religious debates as they are more fun :mrgreen:

[Cacmypants]

Rule #1 of OT: All threads eventually become a politics debate.

 

 

Or a religious debate. They're interchangeable.

 

ya that's true but i prefer religious debates as they are more fun :mrgreen:

 

A lot easier to make jokes out of them, yes.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMYIl5b-paY&feature=feedf

[Normalize]

obama got osama, whaddup

[TrueBeaver]

America Defense Budget by title

 

Components - Funding - Change, 2009 to 2010

Operations and maintenance - $283.3 billion - +4.2%

Military Personnel - $154.2 billion - +5.0%

Procurement - $140.1 billion - −1.8%

Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation - $79.1 billion - +1.3%

Military Construction - $23.9 billion - +19.0%

Family Housing - $3.1 billion - −20.2%

 

Operations and Maintenance is virtually untouchable in wartime, you could close down bases and sell them but that is a process that takes much longer than you would think. Military Personnel is virtually untouchable any time. That leaves $246.2 billion of a $683.7 billion budget. Good luck slashing procurement during wartime, maybe a 15% cut if you had a sympathetic Congress and president. Military Construction and Family Housing is bad enough, no point in cutting that any more, except in specific circumstances ($100 million embassy in Iraq) that would add up to a negligible amount. Which leaves R&D, the easiest place to cut. However, some people have estimated that for every $1 we spend in R&D our GDP grows by $7 due to innovation (couldn't find source, it's been awhile).

 

Even if you cut R&D by 50% (a devastating cut that would never pass) and procurement by 15% along with a 5% across the board cut for the rest, that's only a $83.8 billion cut - just over 12%. And there is no way a cut that large would happen. So it's easy to say "Cut 90% of the budget" but a lot harder when you have to pick out where those cuts come from and consider how feasible (or in this case, infeasible) they are politically. I've spent my entire life in a military family and believe me there are places to cut (they're consolidating bases in Germany as we speak) but in the end the cuts would be so negligible they wouldn't make much of a difference. When we're as far in debt as we are right now every dollar counts, though, and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a 10% across the board budget cut for every department. (Not to mention the removal of some departments, but I digress)

[Effigy]

[marcustullius]

untouchable in wartime

 

 

War with whom? And for what? And to protect whom?

[RpgGamer]

[The Observer]

Personally what's annoying me is all this partying that's happening because he died. You want to be hated? Then go ahead and celebrate the death of a leader.

 

Does anyone know if he was even armed? I watched a documentary last night which suggests that he wasn't armed. Yeah, I'm not that gullible, but it does beg the question if he was or not.

[TrueBeaver]

What I heard is that he reached for something in his robe and they assumed it was a gun.

 

I'm glad he's dead but I wish we had been able to take him alive.

 

E: Looked into it further and I don't even.

 

In his initial speech Obama said "After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body."

A half hour later a senior official said that bin Laden "did resist the assault force. And he was killed in a firefight."

14 hours later in his press briefing Jay Carney said "Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed."

Fox News has reported that he "appeared to be reaching for a weapon before being shot."

 

Source

Edited May 16, 2011 by TrueBeaver

[Ginger_Warrior]

As harsh as it sounds, I'd have through America would've learned its lesson from Saddam's trial. You don't give people like him a platform to make martyrs of themselves. Britain would have made the same mistake with Hitler, but thankfully he solved that problem for us.