25-Oct-2011 - Bot-Nuking Day: Making RuneScape Fairer and More Fun!

[Sona]

They probably got the e-mails by forcing Paypal or something to hand e-mail addresses over. I'm not sure how effective threatening legal action works on players, considering that they've had a history of failing such cases in the first place.

 

I mean, what are they going to do? Spend lawyer fees on every single one of 'em? :rolleyes: And DMCA is on copyright infringement. I don't see bots recreating anything that would be infringing upon copyright. Hell, that's the reason why they lost that first case in the first place.

[Blyaunte]

What troubles me though is at those times when I was on-line last night, there were less than 60k total people on-line, when usual numbers were at least 2½ times that for that same time period (150k).

Given the proliferation of bots throughout the game over the last year, it's not overly surprising that so many of the online "players" at any given time were mostly bots. I think there's a lot of people who left because of bots who are simply waiting for a bit to see how effective this initiative will be over time and, if it is (and I certainly hope it will be), eventually some of those who left will begin to filter back. Word of the success will spread and will help bring in new players.

 

As the old saying goes, "this is going to get worse before it gets better". We've been through the worse, now things will start to get better.

 

Oh for sure about that -- and though I always thought that the botting problem was "bad", I never really expected the numbers to be THIS bad ...

 

Which, really, is "good" -- because it just shows how effective Clusterflutterer (Phase 1) is right now, and how serious Jagex appears to be about fixing the botting problem. It certainly appears to be a very good start in any event.

 

That said -- it looks as though the legit players have got their game back, and there's plenty of room to welcome in all sorts of new legit players who want to play.

 

Frankly -- in stripping down the player base, I am rather hopeful that we might see a return to the community that there once was: the smaller, more intimate group of friendly people that used to "dominate" the landscape of the game ...

 

:unsure:

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

They probably got the e-mails by forcing Paypal or something to hand e-mail addresses over. I'm not sure how effective threatening legal action works on players, considering that they've had a history of failing such cases in the first place.

 

I mean, what are they going to do? Spend lawyer fees on every single one of 'em? :rolleyes: And DMCA is on copyright infringement. I don't see bots recreating anything that would be infringing upon copyright. Hell, that's the reason why they lost that first case in the first place.

 

It's a similar tactic used in copyright trolling - sue the masses, and then offer them a chance to settle for far less what it would cost to go through with any lawsuit.

 

I'm not exactly sure what part of the DMCA they're violating either - it could loosely be tied to protecting their IP, but they failed to secure that properly enough anyway...so...I'm still lost.

[essiw]

What troubles me though is at those times when I was on-line last night, there were less than 60k total people on-line, when usual numbers were at least 2½ times that for that same time period (150k).

Given the proliferation of bots throughout the game over the last year, it's not overly surprising that so many of the online "players" at any given time were mostly bots. I think there's a lot of people who left because of bots who are simply waiting for a bit to see how effective this initiative will be over time and, if it is (and I certainly hope it will be), eventually some of those who left will begin to filter back. Word of the success will spread and will help bring in new players.

 

As the old saying goes, "this is going to get worse before it gets better". We've been through the worse, now things will start to get better.

 

Oh for sure about that -- and though I always thought that the botting problem was "bad", I never really expected the numbers to be THIS bad ...

 

Which, really, is "good" -- because it just shows how effective Clusterflutterer (Phase 1) is right now, and how serious Jagex appears to be about fixing the botting problem. It certainly appears to be a very good start in any event.

 

That said -- it looks as though the legit players have got their game back, and there's plenty of room to welcome in all sorts of new legit players who want to play.

 

Frankly -- in stripping down the player base, I am rather hopeful that we might see a return to the community that there once was: the smaller, more intimate group of friendly people that used to "dominate" the landscape of the game ...

 

:unsure:

Now I question myself how will RSOF look in a few weeks with a lot less players around that did bot. Will it be more mature? Or are the immature guys not the same as the botting guys? :P

[Sona]

It's a similar tactic used in copyright trolling - sue the masses, and then offer them a chance to settle for far less what it would cost to go through with any lawsuit.

 

I'm not exactly sure what part of the DMCA they're violating either - it could loosely be tied to protecting their IP, but they failed to secure that properly enough anyway...so...I'm still lost.

 

Yup. I know the music industry does this quite frequently - I've had to advise a number of my residents about similar situations. But it takes one arrogant kid to go "I ain't payin" for this to become a nightmare for the company in question. At least with movies and music there is an actual copyright involved.

 

The only thing I could possibly see Jagex having a leg to stand on is the line

YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE WE SUFFER ARISING FROM YOUR BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT OR MISUSE OF A JAGEX PRODUCT.

 

But it'll be rather difficult to prove that in court. Furthermore, it'll be awfully, awfully hard to prove that Bot Doe #9823145 is the ONE responsible. Given the U.S. Court's reliance on precedence and how they've already failed twice...

 

The thing that bugs me is not that they're willing to give second chance to botters, but rather the fact that by doing such a thing, Jagex has exposed their weakness. The botters may be right about this: their game IS propped up by people who bot, whether or not Jagex likes to admit it. Removing bots may be an excellent re-start, but Jagex has to now compete with all the other F2P and mobile games out there.

 

At this point I'm not sure who's digging who's grave.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

It's a similar tactic used in copyright trolling - sue the masses, and then offer them a chance to settle for far less what it would cost to go through with any lawsuit.

 

I'm not exactly sure what part of the DMCA they're violating either - it could loosely be tied to protecting their IP, but they failed to secure that properly enough anyway...so...I'm still lost.

 

Yup. I know the music industry does this quite frequently - I've had to advise a number of my residents about similar situations. But it takes one arrogant kid to go "I ain't payin" for this to become a nightmare for the company in question. At least with movies and music there is an actual copyright involved.

 

The only thing I could possibly see Jagex having a leg to stand on is the line

YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE WE SUFFER ARISING FROM YOUR BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT OR MISUSE OF A JAGEX PRODUCT.

 

But it'll be rather difficult to prove that in court. Furthermore, it'll be awfully, awfully hard to prove that Bot Doe #9823145 is the ONE responsible. Given the U.S. Court's reliance on precedence and how they've already failed twice...

 

The thing that bugs me is not that they're willing to give second chance to botters, but rather the fact that by doing such a thing, Jagex has exposed their weakness. The botters may be right about this: their game IS propped up by people who bot, whether or not Jagex likes to admit it. Removing bots may be an excellent re-start, but Jagex has to now compete with all the other F2P and mobile games out there.

 

At this point I'm not sure who's digging who's grave.

 

I can see exactly why they're giving botters a second chance. The writing's on the wall now; the game's (legitimate) player base has definitely shrunk as to be incomparable to the botting community, and the game's popularity has officially waned. If they don't offer those people a way to come back, then they're pretty much sunk.

 

I've got to sit down and think about this more, but honestly - Jagex doesn't come out a winner in all of this.

[Amonitas]

Almost all is so well now, except the market still hasn't recovered from the sudden loss of raw materials and nothing sells or buys.

[Komatose]

What's everyone's problem with dicing anyway?

More often than not, it's a scam. That, and Jagex's ambiguous stance on trust games being "against the spirit of the game" maks it sound like they're trying to avoid dealing with it all together.

 

Psh it is rarely a scam...I've been dicing for a while. I made bank and I lost it all multiple times, never been scammed. Only people that get scammed are the ones that don't take enough precaution when trading hosts, in which case they deserve to be scammed. Dicing is not against the rules either so I don't see the debate over it. This is no different than the armour trimming problems of old.

 

Lmao. Dicing is essentially trust-trading, and you can easily get scammed if you aren't careful. That being said, you're an idiot. You're trying to tell us that dicing is mostly legitimate, isn't against the rules, then you compare it to something that almost always was an illegitimate scam and is most definitely against the rules?

 

As for bots, I still maintain it's too early to tell. I say we need to wait at least a month before we can see how truly effective it is. That being said, if this keeps working as well as it has, RS is a game that I can finally, um... if RS comes up in conversation, and the person is semi-interested in playing it, I can, in good conscience, not feel the need to tell them not to play.

 

My point was that both were trust trades, both had the potential for scamming, and both are technically not against the rules. If you are ignorant of the mechanics of the game, you deserve the outcome. Think that's cruel? Look at the us legal system. If you're ignorant of a law, totally have no idea that it was illegal to do something, and then you do it, game over man you face legal concequences for your ignorant act. I could've describe my analogy further for sure and I apologize that I didn't.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Trust-trading is against the rules because Jagex said explicitly that trust-trading is against the rules. In any system, there is room for discretion outside of what is written down on paper (or computer screen). I don't necessarily oppose dicing--it's not like RS avatars are getting chucked out of their homes for excessive gambling as they do in real life--I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

[essiw]

Trust-trading is against the rules because Jagex said explicitly that trust-trading is against the rules. In any system, there is room for discretion outside of what is written down on paper (or computer screen). I don't necessarily oppose dicing--it's not like RS avatars are getting chucked out of their homes for excessive gambling as they do in real life--I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

Trust trading is not against the rules now as dicing is not against the rules. However in my opinion they should make dicing against the rules, it is worse then merchanting (which is in my opinion a form of scam, don't want to debate about that here), they should just make a dicing room where you can dice against computers, would be a lovely money drain.

[Blyaunte]

I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

They can't and shouldn't and I will tell you why -- because if they do this, then Runescape becomes a gambling site -- with all the negative intonations that are included therewith.

 

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

 

It's more of a tax on stupid people, but yeah ...

[essiw]

I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

They can't and shouldn't and I will tell you why -- because if they do this, then Runescape becomes a gambling site -- with all the negative intonations that are included therewith.

 

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

 

It's more of a tax on stupid people, but yeah ...

But what is the difference between players gambling with each other and gambling against the game? Btw you can already gamble, look at barbican assault.

[ImDustinHoffmanIRL]

That being said, you're an idiot.

 

<_< Why insult someone because he doesn't have problems with dicing?

I dice alot, always in the same cc and mostly to the same hosts. I've never been scammed. You know why? Because scamming my couple of millions would ruin their future investments.

The more street credibility they get, the higher ranked they get; meaning they are allowed to host bigger bets, meaning their 10% of the won amount gets increased time over time.

 

Don't flame people because you disagree...

 

Because he had the most devastatingly awful analogy.

[Flareboy64]

I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

They can't and shouldn't and I will tell you why -- because if they do this, then Runescape becomes a gambling site -- with all the negative intonations that are included therewith.

 

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

 

It's more of a tax on stupid people, but yeah ...

But what is the difference between players gambling with each other and gambling against the game? Btw you can already gamble, look at barbican assault.

Well yeah, but barbarian assault is a tiny, tiny fraction to what some people lose dicing. And it's points (i believe) not actual GP.

[Blyaunte]

I just wish Jagex would make something in-game that facilitates dicing, such that the risk of scamming would be far lower than it currently is.

 

They can't and shouldn't and I will tell you why -- because if they do this, then Runescape becomes a gambling site -- with all the negative intonations that are included therewith.

 

 

That said, many would argue gambling is itself a form of scamming. It's about perspective.

 

It's more of a tax on stupid people, but yeah ...

But what is the difference between players gambling with each other and gambling against the game? Btw you can already gamble, look at barbican assault.

 

It's one thing for some guy on one world to run a dicing game on the side. It's quite another for Jagex to open a virtual casino on 190+ worlds ...

[Ginger_Warrior]

A virtual casino using in-house currency which can't legally be bought with real-life cash? Seems pretty harmless, actually.

[fatherdeath]

A virtual casino using in-house currency which can't legally be bought with real-life cash? Seems pretty harmless, actually.

 

You seem to confuse legality with Jagex's EULA/Rules. It is quite legal to rwt, however it is against the terms of service.

[Blyaunte]

A virtual casino using in-house currency which can't legally be bought with real-life cash? Seems pretty harmless, actually.

 

... and how does one get this in-house currency that cannot be bought? :unsure:

[Joh4]

Those emails are just supposed to scare botters to stop. It's not likely that they would actually sue someone, but they WILL BAN those who continue botting. The email should be taken seriously, it clearly shows that Jagex is aware of YOUR botting and will keep an eye on you.

[brainymidget]

I logged on today for the first time in about 2 weeks and walked down to Taverly black demons to find them completely and 100% empty. :)

[Flareboy64]

I logged on today for the first time in about 2 weeks and walked down to Taverly black demons to find them completely and 100% empty. :)

Oh my god, this morning when I got a black demon task and I saw no one there, I was actually so happy haha

[Blyaunte]

Those emails are just supposed to scare botters to stop. It's not likely that they would actually sue someone, but they WILL BAN those who continue botting. The email should be taken seriously, it clearly shows that Jagex is aware of YOUR botting and will keep an eye on you.

 

I think that ^THIS^ pretty much nails it ...

[lordkafei]

Those emails are just supposed to scare botters to stop. It's not likely that they would actually sue someone, but they WILL BAN those who continue botting. The email should be taken seriously, it clearly shows that Jagex is aware of YOUR botting and will keep an eye on you.

 

I think that ^THIS^ pretty much nails it ...

 

They didnt file that case in US District Court for shiggles. It was filed on June 28, 2011 - almost 4 months ago.

 

Before Runefest. Before Jiblix.

 

I fully expect some assclowns will test Jagex and end up as Does.

[stonewall337]

Wow from Mod Timo

 

Hello everyone,

 

As a part of the update some people will have received the following e-mail communication:

 

Dear Player,

 

We have strong evidence that you may have purchased and used botting software in the past, specifically ibot software.

 

Botting and the cheating it brings is destroying your game, violates Jagex's rights under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and any player that continues to engage in botting activity has no place in our community.

 

As part of bot nuke week we are offering you a 1 time amnesty and settlement lifeline, which is a chance to reform and change your ways. We'd like you to contribute to the community in a positive way, to compete on a level playing field as everyone else does and play in the true spirit of the game, with integrity. All of your accounts, main and otherwise, are now on our watch list and will be monitored for the use of ibot and all other inappropriate third-party software. Regardless of who you are or how long you've been with us, if you decide to cheat and bot ever again we will have no hesitation in: (1) permanently removing your account from our wonderful community in order to protect Jagex's rights under the DMCA, and (2) naming you as a defendant in Jagex Limited v. John Does, which is a lawsuit based on DMCA violations that is currently pending in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California (Civ. Action No. SACV11-00969-CJC).

 

Please note that this amnesty and settlement offer is protected under Fed. R. Evid. 408. If you ignore our offer and instead continue use botting software, we reserve our rights to pursue statutory damages against you for between $200 to $2,500 per act of past, present, and/or future botting in accordance with 17 U.S.C. 1203©(3).

 

We do hope you make the morally sound and lawful choice of turning your back on bots. We look forward to seeing you in game having fun in a way that is true to the spirit of fair play and respectful to your fellow players.

 

Yours sincerely,

Mark Gerhard

I can confirm that this is an official statement from Jagex to the recipient.

 

Please note that there are no website links in the main body of the e-mail. Should you receive any e-mails that contain the above text with website links or additional information, they are likely to be phishing e-mails and should be ignored.

 

Kind regards,

Mod Timo

 

iBot = Nexus = Rsbots.net

Threatening to sue lol

 

 

Doesn't mean dick TBH. I'm going into IP law, and the DMCA, as well as all of America's copyright/IP laws are so convoluted/messed up ATM that this really won't do much. I doubt Jagex would have any chance at all.

[Blyaunte]

Those emails are just supposed to scare botters to stop. It's not likely that they would actually sue someone, but they WILL BAN those who continue botting. The email should be taken seriously, it clearly shows that Jagex is aware of YOUR botting and will keep an eye on you.

 

I think that ^THIS^ pretty much nails it ...

 

They didnt file that case in US District Court for shiggles. It was filed on June 28, 2011 - almost 4 months ago.

 

Before Runefest. Before Jiblix.

 

I fully expect some assclowns will test Jagex and end up as Does.

 

 

Doesn't mean dick TBH. I'm going into IP law, and the DMCA, as well as all of America's copyright/IP laws are so convoluted/messed up ATM that this really won't do much. I doubt Jagex would have any chance at all.

 

In the end, it doesn't necessarily matter whether or not these threats, with respect to legal proceedings, are idle or earnest. They do provide some very important aspects, namely:

 

1. It's a formal services of notice to those parties against which they may take legal proceedings; and

 

2. It's likely just enough to throw a scare into those individuals who would be "spooked" into ceasing and desisting from botting in the future -- i.e. those individuals who thought they were "safe" to bot because "Jagex would never know they did it".

 

Obviously, Jagex doesn't stand much of a chance of enforcing U.S. law on a gold-farm operating out of a Chinese Prison (*snerk*), and any idle threat aimed at those "players" will plainly go unheded and ignored.

 

That said, the typical "13-year-old teenaged boy" who botted his account to get "epic PKer stats", and who's resident in the U.S., and isn't in "pre-law" doesn't know any of that. All he knows is he got an email from Jagex that told him if he bots again, his ass is grass.

 

In the end, it's the 13-year-old teenaged boy that Jagex wants back and playing as a "legit" player so this is an opportunity for Jagex to throw a scare into them, warn them about botting, warn them about banning, and not lose their paying membership fees.