4th March - The World Wakes

[helring]

Huge spoilers to follow.

[spoiler=Huge spoilers, srsly]

This was taken from behind the corpse of Skargaroth, seen on the left. The path was just past the memory of him. It's a bit dark in this screenie, but there was a four-pointed star on the ground, usually the symbol of Saradomin.

Is it possible he went to Guthix's world as one of the destroyers?

 

 

 

Unlikely, as far as I am aware, Saradomin was only a 'recent' deity, IE, it is not as old as Zaros, and thus I doubt it can be attributed to the destruction of Guthix's homeland. The symbol on the ground could very well be just cracks in the tiles

 

 

 

I don't think we know anything about saradomin's age. Would make sense that once Guthix's world died the gods would move on or Saradomin would find a new world. Also remember that we are only seeing what Guthix wished us to see....is it possible he was trying to lead us against Saradomin since he assumed we may be willing to join such a good seeming god?

 

[Blutters]

Meanwhile about Automation Guardians. I've found a place where you can bloodfire barrage (not sure if the most effective way but meh) 3-4 automations at once. You have to stand 1 step north from the h-looking symbol (located north from the main enterace). No food usage what so ever, even without SS.

This is with a wand and book correct? At least, I think those would be far more effective if you're not using abilities since abilities don't have area of effect for barrages.

 

I meleed them with void, d-rapiers and steel for a while and was killing them quite fast. Is there some damage bonus against automatons? I hit extremely high with thresholds after using Berserker, which is kind of the point, but I saw a 6.9k from one hit. Maybe that's partly from the DW rebalance, I dunno.

Their drops more than pay for Overloads at this rate, so I think I'll camp a while yet.

[S11m]

Sooo... staves are pointless now? I don't have the slightest idea :) I'm using a staff of light and it's rare to see a 1200+ hit.

[Blutters]

Only auto-attacks activate the area-of-effect of Ancients. Since the entire point of using Ancients is to hit several targets at once, and dual-casting has very quick auto-attacks, a wand+book would probably be better. You didn't think it was a bit slow without abilities? The truth is, actually, that several of Magic's abilities aren't great for general use, and there aren't enough for a full rotation here, as someone else said. Dual-wielding with Momentum on several targets is sounding even better.

[Fred_S]

You haven't learned how to use the abilities properly

 

In his defense, some abilities have a long duration to complete before you can move your character. Off the top of my head some ultimates and range-basics come to mind. I don't think you get hurt during those pauses though? If you do, I'd definitely understand the frustration.

 

You can cancel out long duration abilities by using another ability, i use this to sometimes build ad.

[Troacctid]

Only auto-attacks activate the area-of-effect of Ancients. Since the entire point of using Ancients is to hit several targets at once, and dual-casting has very quick auto-attacks, a wand+book would probably be better. You didn't think it was a bit slow without abilities? The truth is, actually, that several of Magic's abilities aren't great for general use, and there aren't enough for a full rotation here, as someone else said. Dual-wielding with Momentum on several targets is sounding even better.

 

With the imminent release of new mage and range abilities, that won't necessarily be true for very long.

[Sylpheed]

Satire should be subtle and funny. Your post was neither.

 

Regardless of the plotholes the minimal requirements left behind, I knew what was happening, and so did anyone that cares about the lore in this game.

 

Jagex gave plenty of warnings that to fully appreciate the quest, players should do the other requirements. It's not their fault if people can't be bothered to read.

 

And it isn't my fault either that you can't be bothered to properly read my post either, choosing rather to respond viscerally rather than intelligently. If you haven't understood what the main point of complaint is, then any discussion with you is hopeless.

 

As much as you may want me to, I'm not going to argue with you. I did read your posts and I got your point. I've also replied several times on the subject; why don't you read those before getting hot under the collar.

[Yoko Kurama]

As much as you may want me to, I'm not going to argue with you. I did read your posts and I got your point. I've also replied several times on the subject; why don't you read those before getting hot under collar.

 

You are the one who seems intent on starting pointless arguments. If you had truly actually understood the post in question, you'd be responding to my criticisms of the lack of consistency, plot holes, illogical narrative structure, the dumbing down of requirements, and inappropriate incentive structure. Those are things I brought up, instead you chose to quote me and talk about points which have nothing to do with me and which I did not bring up.

[Sylpheed]

As much as you may want me to, I'm not going to argue with you. I did read your posts and I got your point. I've also replied several times on the subject; why don't you read those before getting hot under collar.

 

You are the one who seems intent on starting pointless arguments. If you had truly actually understood the post in question, you'd be responding to my criticisms of the lack of consistency, plot holes, illogical narrative structure, the dumbing down of requirements, and inappropriate incentive structure. Those are things I brought up, instead you chose to quote me and talk about points which have nothing to do with me and which I did not bring up.

 

Again, yes I did address almost all of those and I ask you again to read my previous posts because I'm not going to repeat myself. There's no point continuing this on the thread, if you have a problem then PM me.

[Miss Lioness]

Yoko, I do not want to be offensive, but from your last post it seems like you are basically saying:

 

"I've brought up valid points that are the only points that can be correct. If you read what I wrote you would have come to the same conclusions and therefor your argument is invalid and has nothing to do with it! Hence I am corrent, you 're wrong and everything else is [cabbage]!"

 

 

I have been rereading your arguments against each other and I have come to the conclusion that you both are talking about the same thing:

Whether or not the player has to do all quests to enjoy the content to it fullest!

[Yoko Kurama]

Yoko, I do not want to be offensive, but from your last post it seems like you are basically saying:

 

"I've brought up valid points that are the only points that can be correct. If you read what I wrote you would have come to the same conclusions and therefor your argument is invalid and has nothing to do with it! Hence I am corrent, you 're wrong and everything else is [cabbage]!"

 

No, I said nothing of the sort. I do not have problems with people disagreeing with me, but if they intend to respond to me, they should at least be responding to things I actually said. I am not objecting to Sylpheed disagreeing with me, but rather responding to me with irrelevant things. One of the points (amongst others) I brought up was that it should not be logically possible for all these characters to be there in this new quest unless you have completed certain previous quests which propel these characters to this particular present point in time. This is what Sylpheed had to say about this:

 

Regardless of the plotholes the minimal requirements left behind, I knew what was happening, and so did anyone that cares about the lore in this game.

 

What does this have to do with what I initially said? My problem isn't that the lack of requirements will simply confuse people on the lore if they haven't done the previous quests (though this is a problem too) but rather that if you haven't done the previous quests, then the events which make the events in the current quest possible have not occurred. For instance, if you haven't done Desert Treasure, then Azzandra should still be trapped in the Pyramid, not running around plotting to bring Zaros back to the world. If you haven't done ROTM, none of the Mahjarrats should be rejuvenated.This is a complete mockery and mess of the narrative structure.

 

He then went on to say the following:

 

Jagex gave plenty of warnings that to fully appreciate the quest, players should do the other requirements. It's not their fault if people can't be bothered to read.

 

This is about as good a response as the previous one, it doesn't even pretend to acknowledge anything I said, yet is posed as a response to my original post any way. My line about "not bothering to read my post properly" was actually an ironic reply to the last part of Sylpheed's post where he accuses other people of not being able to read properly. It was not an attempt to say "I'm just perfect, as is my opinion; if you don't agree with me, you're illiterate".

 

He came in with a somewhat dismissive attitude about my caricature of Jagex by talking about things completely irrelevant to it. That is why I accused him of not having read my post properly.

[Miss Lioness]

Actually Jagex has stated that the quest requirements for full completion of TWW all happend before the events in TWW. Basically if one does those quests after the events in TWW, the quests act as a flashback or a memory or a retelling of the story...

[Yoko Kurama]

Actually Jagex has stated that the quest requirements for full completion of TWW all happend before the events in TWW. Basically if one does those quests after the events in TWW, the quests act as a flashback or a memory or a retelling of the story...

 

And what if one never does the quests, yet still does TWW? Still doesn't really explain why you should be able to do the quest in the first place, without setting in motion the events that lead to it.

 

----------------

@Sylpheed

 

Again, yes I did address almost all of those and I ask you again to read my previous posts because I'm not going to repeat myself. There's no point continuing this on the thread, if you have a problem then PM me.

 

It appears we have reached an impasse. Agreed then, that's more than fair.

[Miss Lioness]

Actually Jagex has stated that the quest requirements for full completion of TWW all happend before the events in TWW. Basically if one does those quests after the events in TWW, the quests act as a flashback or a memory or a retelling of the story...

 

And what if one never does the quests, yet still does TWW? Still doesn't really explain why you should be able to do the quest in the first place, without setting in motion the events that lead to it.

 

----------------

@Sylpheed

 

Again, yes I did address almost all of those and I ask you again to read my previous posts because I'm not going to repeat myself. There's no point continuing this on the thread, if you have a problem then PM me.

 

It appears we have reached an impasse. Agreed then, that's more than fair.

 

A person can still read upon the quests to get an understanding on why things happens in TWW as they do.

 

But a reminder: The player won't move to the next age till he/she has done all the 'Past' Quests!

[Sy_Accursed]

^ It seems that assumption was false - Jagex info on the timeline from rsof (see a few pages back) has rendered TWW and a number of other quests 'the past' regardless of completion and any thing unlocked via them (eg Char) will be assumed as being known/free from now on (allowing for more low level lore quests to aid story)

 

The quests considered the past will all have a preface in the coming weeks to inform players they are basically playing a flashback opposed to a current event.

[Ammako]

IMO, I'd say that fits in the "learning how to use the abilities properly" category.

 

Why would you say that?

Because being 'locked' into one ability is one of the risks of using these abilities, and if you just randomly use abilities for the sake of dealing damage, without knowing if it's 'safe' to use said ability at this time, then you haven't learned to use it properly.

[Sy_Accursed]

IMO, I'd say that fits in the "learning how to use the abilities properly" category.

 

Why would you say that?

Because being 'locked' into one ability is one of the risks of using these abilities, and if you just randomly use abilities for the sake of dealing damage, without knowing if it's 'safe' to use said ability at this time, then you haven't learned to use it properly.

 

Totally agree, besides many of these longer ,oves can even be interrupted if you know what you are doing. (Also another sing of not knowing what you are doing if you find ones like asphyxiate bad because you button mash out of them)

[Yoko Kurama]

More thoughts on the lore:

 

[hide]Guthix's vision for the future seems to be one where Gelinor is defended from the onslaught of the other Gods and is free of them (including Guthix himself). Indeed that seems to be the mission he has entrusted the player with. Given what we know about the Gods, that they are for the most part all power-hungry maniacs, particularly Zammy, Zaros, Bandos and Saradomin -- that seems like a noble goal. However I can't imagine a more duller thing for the player. If the mission succeeds, then that means Gelinor is free form the Gods, I don't know but I always liked the idea of the Gods as being part of the world rather than banishing them forever. It takes a lot of the magic out of it.

 

Also, I have to say that when I first saw the teaser for TWW, I was appalled by how they portrayed Guthix (aesthetically), I thought it made him look a barbarian/freminik rather than some celestial being. But I have to say that the look has really grown on me. It makes a lot more sense, I guess than the Disney view of things where the good guys are handsome and pretty and the bad guys are ugly. Guthix's look embodies that nature aspect of his being quite well. He doesn't just assume handsome forms, he assumes all sorts of forms. I have really grown to like his look now. I like the fact that Guthix has a backstory, he's a particular person from a particular setting and what not, rather than the traditional view of God(s) where they are merely timeless beings floating in space. Instead Guthix is, I guess, an alien/race with a tragic past that sought refuge in Gelinor.

 

I also found the choice of Guthix's guardians quite telling. The motif of balance was found there again. While they were rather talented in their own unique sense, none of his guardians were given too much power which is a mistake that other Gods made (Zaros and Zammy). So Guthix never ran the risk of being supplanted by one of his own. Zaros allowed the Mahjarrat to grow too powerful, and he chose a race that was already quite powerful to begin with. Naturally, one of them eventually usurped his Godhood (Zammy). Likewise, Lucien tried to usurp Zammy's power, or at least challenge it. He tried to position himself as the leader of the Mahjarrat, and had he acheived Godhood, it's unlikely he would still obey Zammy (as they would be equals at that stage). I guess Guthix avoided that scenario quite well with regards to his own troops.

 

[/hide]

[MotherBrainII]

And what if one never does the quests, yet still does TWW?

 

This is one of the rare occasions where I disagree with you.

 

Canonically, it's assumed that you will do them. This is feasible for one simple reason: RS does not allow you to make decisions that irreversibly lock you out of doing those quests. The only other option would be to have the player say "I'm never going to do those quests, give me the different story" and then you have a paradox if the player changes his mind. Or a frustrating gameplay experience for someone who has locked themselves out of that content.

 

Continuing to restrict access to the game's main storyline, spanning 10+ years, wasn't sustainable in my opinion. The requirements for WGS are still no walkover, nor are the requirements of ROTM, and RS would end up coming across to people as even more elitist if people couldn't experience the main story of the game without meeting those requirements. If anything, my only beef with this "hard reset" is that Jagex shouldn't have put it off for as long as they did, since it's the sort of thing that gets more awkward the later you do it

 

This also doesn't herald the end of high level content. The 140 combat requirement isn't exactly tough to meet but isn't trivial either, and I'm willing to bet that this questline will eventually produce a high level quest -- what if the hard reset hadn't taken place? That super duper quest would pretty much have to require a max cape in order to seem impressive. And that's without pointing out that the majority of recent low-level content has had additional rewards for high level players, which both gives newbies an immediate goal to strive for and gives the "old guard" a reason to do the content.

 

I feel like I'm very much in the minority saying this, but I'm fine with the "current regime", and I'm willing to put up with pandering to new players and monetising the game if what I get in return is the dramatic improvement in the quality of content that we've seen over the last two to three years or so.

 

</rambling>

 

EDIT: From the FAQ:

 

 

"How come Zaros didn't turn to stone when he was impaled by Zamorak, is there something special about him?"

 

Mod Osborne: Aside from Guthix and the Elder Gods, Zaros is the most powerful god to set foot on Gielinor. Over time he gained several powers that were not available to other gods, and one was to abandon his body on a whim. To avoid death he is incorporeal now, which makes him weaker, but he is still alive. Even now, he is likely to be searching for a host body to return to RuneScape.

 

For those who wonder why Guthix didn't have the same ability to avoid death, remember that Guthix wanted to die, while Zaros wasn't interested in taking a dirtnap

 

So we know that Zaros is looking for a host body. Given Azzanadra's dialogue after Temple of Senntisten, I thin we can assume that he plans to use the player. Guthix's anti-god power might have thrown a wrench in that plan, though...

 

 

 

[Ambler]

EDIT: From the FAQ:

 

 

"How come Zaros didn't turn to stone when he was impaled by Zamorak, is there something special about him?"

 

Mod Osborne:Even now, [Zaros] is likely to be searching for a host body to return to RuneScape.

 

So we know that Zaros is looking for a host body. Given Azzanadra's dialogue after Temple of Senntisten, I thin we can assume that he plans to use the player. Guthix's anti-god power might have thrown a wrench in that plan, though...

 

 

 

[hide]We have the body of Runescape's most powerful god just sitting in an underground temple, I'd say that's a good choice for Zaros, no? :lol:

[/hide]

[Quyneax]

IMO, I'd say that fits in the "learning how to use the abilities properly" category.

Why would you say that?

Basically what Pengouin said, anybody knows you're not supposed to use long combos when movement is crucial. You have it at Nex (as well as DoT), you have it when dungeoneering on several bosses, you have it when meleeing strykes probably, there's KK... movement has been critical to combat for a long time, pre-EoC and post.

 

Huge spoilers to follow.

[spoiler=Huge spoilers, srsly]

This was taken from behind the corpse of Skargaroth, seen on the left. The path was just past the memory of him. It's a bit dark in this screenie, but there was a four-pointed star on the ground, usually the symbol of Saradomin.

Is it possible he went to Guthix's world as one of the destroyers?

 

[hide]That looks like it was originally a tiled floor.[/hide]

[jayc3399]

Part of me wants to say the simplest solution to all of this would be to just require TWW as a prereq for all future quests, so you have to get the background for future lore to make sense. It might even help motivate people to go back and do the pre quests for TWW as background.

[God Of Lego]

It was nice story telling and all. But had very bad foundations.

[Octarine]

Imo their solution with TWW was unnecessary, although complicated for some people. Jagex got to the point where they wanted to make a game-changing quest with the possibility of multiple storylines branching from it, and the endless chain of each new big quest requiring basically the quest cape to complete wasn't sustainable.

 

Also it's not THAT hard to get your head around. Silske/dragonkin/staff of armadyl quest/lore sounds great though, it'll be good to have their involvement added

[Estoc]

So how come we don't just have some Zaros minion replace Azzanadra if you haven't done Desert Treasure? I mean they've done it with

Durael dying in wgs

along with the others.