Runescape 3 is coming this summer...(BTS Bonus edition)

[JoWie]

Seems to me cheating would only be made easier when using HTML5 and JavaScript instead of Java (all other things being equal)

[ilovecuttingyews]

When they first announced HTML5 someone here mentioned it would make catching bots easier. Any merit to this?

[sees_all1]

When they first announced HTML5 someone here mentioned it would make catching bots easier. Any merit to this?

Yeah. Game updates, bots are trying to log in with their old methods, and JaGEx is going "Lolz, got you, you, you, and you!" Similar to the wilderness ditch, but less obvious to legit players.

[Mercifull]

When they first announced HTML5 someone here mentioned it would make catching bots easier. Any merit to this?

Theory: It means they couldn't use reverse engineering techniques like injection or reflection and would have to use more easy to detect methods of botting such as colour picking?

[Hedgehog]

When they first announced HTML5 someone here mentioned it would make catching bots easier. Any merit to this?

Theory: It means they couldn't use reverse engineering techniques like injection or reflection and would have to use more easy to detect methods of botting such as colour picking?

This isn't really my area of expertise, but I think it would still be possible to use injection and reflection.

[Platinum_Myr]

Not to mention they allow the java client for backwards compatibility if the user doesn't want html5... so kind of moot point.

[JoWie]

With javascript you do not even need reflection, you can do almost whatever you want.

You can even redefine almost every function of the standard API's such as DOM, WebSocket, etc.

 

Suppose I want to modify data a webapplication sends using WebSocket, I could inject this script using the firefox / chrome console:

 

// try this on http://www.websocket.org/echo.html

var _send = WebSocket.prototype.send;

WebSocket.prototype.send = function(data)
{
console.log('hi! ', data);
data = data.replace(/rock/ig, 'Slap');

_send.call(this, data);
};

 

This even works for WebSockets that have been created before you inject your script.

[The Floating Pen]

I have a written an article for the Tip.It Times, please check it out. :)

[thejollyroger]

When they first announced HTML5 someone here mentioned it would make catching bots easier. Any merit to this?

Theory: It means they couldn't use reverse engineering techniques like injection or reflection and would have to use more easy to detect methods of botting such as colour picking?

 

That's what I'd read, so again, remember I said "if I remember right". I appreciate JoWie's explanation: I've been wrong before and I freely admit that coding/scripting/programming isn't much my forte (tried for over 20 years, but I'm looking to try again with Python). I do feel I should clarify that despite the similar names, however, Java and Javascript are not even CLOSE to being the same thing. Vulnerabilities are therefore going to be different. Apologies if this was already understood.

 

I should also emphasize that security is most important to me, and I believe that's why the switch to HTML5 is coming about. Oracle has yet to fix that plug-in vulnerability properly. The base game will still likely use Java, but Jagex won't be using a means of putting it on the browser that is so vulnerable still. While I'm already pretty happy that Runescape supports OpenGL, I think things will just only get better for players on Linux in terms of performance and stability... although the community fretted hard about codecs (mostly H.264). I have every reason to believe we on Linux will be better served with HTML5.

[Reliable]

Am I the only one most excited about the customizable interface / better draw distances? Can't bloody wait for those :D

[Urza285]

Am I the only one most excited about the customizable interface / better draw distances? Can't bloody wait for those :D

Hopeful, but jagex has a tendency to be a bit shallow on these things. I am excited too, but reluctant. Right now the camera doesn't give as much leeway as I would like for interface rearrangement.

[Mercifull]

Isn't modifying the code/websockets easier to detect though?

 

Also could Jagex run the game under https as well to prevent cheaters?

[JoWie]

Isn't modifying the code/websockets easier to detect though?

 

Also could Jagex run the game under https as well to prevent cheaters?

 

That example I posted is detectable, yes. But the part that detects it would also have to run in the browser. So i could switch to a method that is not yet detected or I could remove the detection code. You could also do these kinds of things from within a firefox extension, that would even be harder to combat because an extension has more privileges than a web application (runescape).

 

HTTPS would not help much. Oversimplifying it a bit: it protects the endpoints (client and server) from anything in between (like a malicious router recording passwords), but it does not protect the endpoints from each other.

 

Note that variants of this can be done to any client. If you only have an executable, you could still modify the executable. It is just a whole lot easier in javascript.

Runescape already protects against a lot of cheats by making the server authoritative, even if the entire game was open source you could still not just give yourself a billion gold points.

The hard part is preventing cheaters from gaining information they should not have (like an enemy behind a wall in shooters), cheaters improving their input (aimbot) and automation (bots).

There is no real solution to aimbots and bots, if you can do it, a program can also do it. Detection software is not a solution either, you can always do your cheating at a higher level (like running the game in a virtual machine and doing the cheating in the host OS; or by controlling your keyboard with lego mindstorms ;p ).

 

All you can do is make it really really hard, like by changing your code very often, settings traps or by making it so hard bots have to solve hard AI problems.

[Saru Inc]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

[Urza285]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

[Octarine]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

[constrictor]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

 

Skyrimscape.

[Emaxganis]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Jagex-Runescape-3-Update-Announcement-Release,21686.html

 

Runescape 3 on Toms Hardware

[Sy_Accursed]

http://www.tomshardw...ease,21686.html

 

Runescape 3 on Toms Hardware

 

Biggest pet peeve of blogs like that is the inevitable comment of

"Most have, since then, grown out of the game, or simply got tired of grinding to just about level anything."

 

NO.

This is not a fact, you have made it up based on your personal experience/hearsay. Do not smear the entire game with the same brush of 'most out grow it' - I mean just look at the crew and well known names around any of the big fansites most date back a good 5+ years and the fact that there is plenty of people actively playing who can wear the 10 year vet cape.

 

It annoys me mostly because it is kind of a back-handed insult: If RS is a game most 'grow out of' it implies to be a long term player is to not grow up eg you immature, have limited to no independence etc.

[Sylpheed]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

 

Skyrimscape.

 

Please show me anywhere in Skyrim that looks like that.

[Ambler]

Can we just stop arguing and accept that this is gonna be beautiful?

[constrictor]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

 

Skyrimscape.

 

Please show me anywhere in Skyrim that looks like that.

 

I was half-joking. It just has a similar 3d view to Skyrim.

[Sy_Accursed]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

 

Skyrimscape.

 

Please show me anywhere in Skyrim that looks like that.

 

I was half-joking. It just has a similar 3d view to Skyrim.

 

If by 'similar 3D view' you mean 'the only possible 3D view for a game world rendered in 3D with a camera attached to a player figure' I agree.

I mean its no more similar to Skyrims 3D world than it is to batman Arkham, assassin's Creed etc...

[constrictor]

Dumb question, but what do they mean by 'draw distances?' Is this just another term for depth perception and other visual oriented things?

Draw distance is the distance you can see in the game client.

This image shows it off pretty nicely, so with a much higher draw distance we can see wayyyy out into the distance instead of seeing a barrier of fog :P

 

 

Skyrimscape.

 

Please show me anywhere in Skyrim that looks like that.

 

I was half-joking. It just has a similar 3d view to Skyrim.

 

If by 'similar 3D view' you mean 'the only possible 3D view for a game world rendered in 3D with a camera attached to a player figure' I agree.

I mean its no more similar to Skyrims 3D world than it is to batman Arkham, assassin's Creed etc...

 

[bleep]ing hell, you guys are bunch of pessimistic turds. It was a simple joke, move on.

 

Personally I think the update will be nice, but Jagex needs to slow down with these HUGE updates (gm quests/eoc - most recents) and do so more minor tweaks/start some new quest lines.

[ilovecuttingyews]

Personally I think the update will be nice, but Jagex needs to slow down with these HUGE updates (gm quests/eoc - most recents) and do so more minor tweaks/start some new quest lines.

The problem with that idea is that Runescape is 12 years old. Over the last few years Jagex has seen a steady decline in players which says to me (and probably them) that it's not so much individual updates that make players leave, but the game becoming more outdated every year thus gaining fewer and fewer new players. To keep up with the competition the NEED to have massive overhauls to avoid being left in 2007. I agree, small fixes are awesome, but that's not what lures in and keeps new players.