11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports

[Everyonedies]

I think its best to focus on Scrolls. I might freeze doing any more missions and only do adventurer missions for Scrolls. Since the mini game advances with distance getting only distance from Scrolls should really slow up travel from the bowl to pincers. It will take months anyway to get all the scrolls but i dont see any rush for me at this point since by the time i could make anything its not going to be worth top dollar. Im guessing something like 1 scroll every 2 days is about average? Honstly i wish i would have thought of this sooner while i was in the cherry region.

[Estoc]

I don't understand this whole "stop at early region to collect scrolls" thing. Wouldn't doing fewer missions per day (only scrolls) negate any time saved by doing 4 hour scroll missions instead of 8?

[Saradomin_Mage]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

 

Jade portal, for those not intent on blowing 15k:

 

[loreal]

I don't mind discussing this. Not much else to talk about.

 

Some considerations against merchants:

 

1) You have limited amounts of crew. Merchants might have a better expected return on resource missions but they are not useful on story/scroll/special/trait missions which make up a large proportion of the missions. Other crew members are helpful on all missions so that slot might be put to better use with one of them.

 

2) When you're dealing with trade resources like plate and chi, you're only getting 3-5 per mission anyway. Since these resources are rounded down, the expected return with using merchants is greatly reduced. On a 3 plate mission a merchant that gives 30% doesn't actually help does it? 3 x 1.3 = 3.9, rounded down to 3.

 

3) Failing doesn't feel good. We play this game because we enjoy it on some level and success tastes far sweeter. If I can succeed 4/4 missions and get 12 plates versus succeeding 3/4 missions for 12 plates, I'd feel better about the former option.

 

 

That's not to say merchants aren't useful. But it's not a simple expected value calculation.

[Everyonedies]

I don't understand this whole "stop at early region to collect scrolls" thing. Wouldn't doing fewer missions per day (only scrolls) negate any time saved by doing 4 hour scroll missions instead of 8?

I thinking about it more in the sense that after pincers unless there is an update thats it and in that region scroll missions are very hard and take a very long time to do and by that point you will have finished all the story lines and may of got items you cant use. So far i have unlocked a scrim one piece of the range gear and once piece of the melee gear. But i want a full set of both the ranger gear and melee gear. (im not that into magic). Basically what my bet would be is that its faster to get the scrolls i want in the bowl then finish the story lines for the trade goods and then get more trade goods in the pincers. What most are doing is by finishing story lines and trying to get scrolls and trade goods together in the pincers. I might be wrong who knows but to get 2 full untradable sets will take a really long time either way.

[Thorgmir]

I don't mind discussing this. Not much else to talk about.

 

Some considerations against merchants:

 

1) You have limited amounts of crew. Merchants might have a better expected return on resource missions but they are not useful on story/scroll/special/trait missions which make up a large proportion of the missions. Other crew members are helpful on all missions so that slot might be put to better use with one of them.

 

2) When you're dealing with trade resources like plate and chi, you're only getting 3-5 per mission anyway. Since these resources are rounded down, the expected return with using merchants is greatly reduced. On a 3 plate mission a merchant that gives 30% doesn't actually help does it? 3 x 1.3 = 3.9, rounded down to 3.

 

3) Failing doesn't feel good. We play this game because we enjoy it on some level and success tastes far sweeter. If I can succeed 4/4 missions and get 12 plates versus succeeding 3/4 missions for 12 plates, I'd feel better about the former option.

 

 

That's not to say merchants aren't useful. But it's not a simple expected value calculation.

 

Some good points. I'm not sure enough to say much about the best number of merchants to have, because there are definitely missions where they aren't useful. Personally, I have three merchants for four ships, as I usually have at least one ship on one of those missions. To me, four seems excessive and two seems not quite enough, but that's quite subjective. A few posts back I mentioned the problem of having a merchant on a three trade good mission, but once you get to the Pincers, you get four trade good missions, and that gives you a bonus plate, which I think merits a merchant.

 

Failure doesn't feel good, and if all else were equal, I would agree with your third point. But I don't think all else is equal. For trade good missions in the Pincers, the question is more like this: would you rather succeed 9/10 and get 36 plates, or succeed 8/10 and get 40 plates? I would definitely choose the latter.

[So Rowdy]

Looks like you can drop stuff in the port now. I'm assuming they just allowed this so they could 500% test for duping glitches or something lol

[Flyingjj]

Looks like you can drop stuff in the port now. I'm assuming they just allowed this so they could 500% test for duping glitches or something lol

I saw the warning message, but it still wouldn't let me drop anything. Perhaps it's a warning so if familiars (I don't even know if you can bring them into ports) run out, you don't lose that stuff? Or if you somehow manage to die inside the port?

[strilmus]

both are possible, i did it before

 

you can't light any logs this way or with a pyrelord still

 

however, you can still lay traps

[Allmonkey]

 

I'm moving on up these ranks. Got this shortly after moving into Pincers, I forgot about it though.

[MightyMuddy]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

 

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

[Quyneax]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

[Sy_Accursed]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

 

Can certainly get closer than I would of expected though!

[MightyMuddy]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

 

Can certainly get closer than I would of expected though!

 

Ahh well, it's a shame but I suppose it isn't too bad. Looking at a 100% success rate would be nice though.

 

Thanks for the math by the way, Quyneax.

[So Rowdy]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

 

Can certainly get closer than I would of expected though!

 

Ahh well, it's a shame but I suppose it isn't too bad. Looking at a 100% success rate would be nice though.

 

Thanks for the math by the way, Quyneax.

 

I assume the x1.03 is for the shipwright? The shipwright gives a ship boost of 3% and then an additional M/C/SF boost, which was the only one you included, so add another 2% in there I believe. Not sure if that's what I'm reading though

[Sy_Accursed]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

 

Can certainly get closer than I would of expected though!

 

Ahh well, it's a shame but I suppose it isn't too bad. Looking at a 100% success rate would be nice though.

 

Thanks for the math by the way, Quyneax.

 

I assume the x1.03 is for the shipwright? The shipwright gives a ship boost of 3% and then an additional M/C/SF boost, which was the only one you included, so add another 2% in there I believe. Not sure if that's what I'm reading though

 

I thought that was covered.

Shipwright gives 3% (the 1.03*)

With an additional 2% to stat of your choice, which was covered in the 1.05* (or might be 1.03*1.02).

 

In the math it is assumed you go for the 5% (or maybe 3%+2%) seafaring boost because that is the best choice because seafaring falls 1000 short of morale or combat on the ship upgrades so therefore is in most need of extra boost.

[So Rowdy]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

Will it be possible to consistently 100% scroll and trade good voyage missions in the pincer if you've maxed out your crew/ship?

Assuming level 10 in all crew & captain at level 10 with +400 from traits:

 

2400 * 5 = 12000 from crew

1800 from captain

1350 * 2 from deck

1400 from hull

800 from figurehead

 

For seafaring, reduce the total by 1000.

 

Then multiply by 1.03 for morale and combat and 1.05 (or 1.03*1.02, not sure) for seafaring.

 

That gives you the maximum of 19261 for combat and morale, and 18585 for seafaring.

 

The requirements are 20k single stat.

 

So, no, not all scroll/trade good voyages can be 100%ed.

 

Can certainly get closer than I would of expected though!

 

Ahh well, it's a shame but I suppose it isn't too bad. Looking at a 100% success rate would be nice though.

 

Thanks for the math by the way, Quyneax.

 

I assume the x1.03 is for the shipwright? The shipwright gives a ship boost of 3% and then an additional M/C/SF boost, which was the only one you included, so add another 2% in there I believe. Not sure if that's what I'm reading though

 

I thought that was covered.

Shipwright gives 3% (the 1.03*)

With an additional 2% to stat of your choice, which was covered in the 1.05* (or might be 1.03*1.02).

 

In the math it is assumed you go for the 5% (or maybe 3%+2%) seafaring boost because that is the best choice because seafaring falls 1000 short of morale or combat on the ship upgrades so therefore is in most need of extra boost.

 

He said "and 1.05 (quote) for seafaring" which I assume he means if you choose the shipwright that favors seafaring, although that isn't true: all the shipwrights are the same boost for M/C/SF. So I think in the end he made the error of only counting 3% when in reality it's 5%. Not sure how much of a difference it'll make, just thought I'd point it out

[Sy_Accursed]

But they dont all offer the same boost.

The 4 top end ones offer 3% to 3/4 ship stats and 5% to 1/4 ship stats.

 

The sums done specifically chose to use the seafaring favouring shipwright as seafaring is the lowest stat of the 3 that matter when all other factors are maxed, hence 1.03* to m/c and 1.05* to sf.

[chenw]

The point in early region scrolls, from what I can see, is that the journeys take shorter while the success chances are somewhat roughly the same (start with 80 or so %, then down to about 60 or so, then back up to about 80% again at the end of the region), the shorter journeys let you reroll your adventurers, get another scroll mission AFTER your first scroll voyage have returned, rather than running into a scroll mission whos requirements are similar, so you probably would be out of your best crew.

 

This happened to me today, my first scroll was a full on seafaring voyage (Whaler) and so naturally I loaded my ship with my best seafaring crew, but I rerolled later and got biologist who needed Morale and Seafaring, and I was pretty much out of any seafaring crew. I was lucky in the sense that I was still able to get 63% on my second scroll mission on the virtue of loading my ship with SF boosts and use my only remaining witch, but had this scenario been Convict and Occultist, then I'll run into that problem more dramatically (since both are morale single stats, I will never get enough morale on my second ship).

 

In the earlier regions, because the voyages don't take that long, it's possible to wait for your ships to return, reroll the adventurers and then send them out again even if the rerolled scroll voyages required the same stats as before, while it's still possible to do that in Bowl, it's a little bit harder due to the 12 hour timer. In Pincer i'd imagine this would be even harder.

 

The other reasons for prioritising scrolls are, I take them over stories because stories will always show up when that adventurer do, and story voyages will never get any harder as you progress into next region (IE if you have 9001 story mission, and you dont do it until pincer, it will still be 9001 mission and takes the same time as it was first available).

 

The resource voyages are extremely useful at the start of a new region (due to its requirements for the rewards), the usefulness of those drop as you start getting your ship upgrades and full crew replacements, eventually you'd be swimming in such resources that they don't actually do much anymore. Trade goods was something of a Gamble, I thought that trade goods would offer more per voyage in later zones than earlier, so I ignored them. So far I haven't gotten more than 25 trade goods total across all categories, including spices.

 

Experience is something I avoid with a 20 foot pole...

[So Rowdy]

But they dont all offer the same boost.

The 4 top end ones offer 3% to 3/4 ship stats and 5% to 1/4 ship stats.

 

The sums done specifically chose to use the seafaring favouring shipwright as seafaring is the lowest stat of the 3 that matter when all other factors are maxed, hence 1.03* to m/c and 1.05* to sf.

 

I was going under the impression that you can have all three shipwrights built and you're able to use them interchangeably. Now that I think about it, that doesn't sound very realistic lol

[Sy_Accursed]

But they dont all offer the same boost.

The 4 top end ones offer 3% to 3/4 ship stats and 5% to 1/4 ship stats.

 

The sums done specifically chose to use the seafaring favouring shipwright as seafaring is the lowest stat of the 3 that matter when all other factors are maxed, hence 1.03* to m/c and 1.05* to sf.

 

I was going under the impression that you can have all three shipwrights built and you're able to use them interchangeably. Now that I think about it, that doesn't sound very realistic lol

 

You can swap but you need to pay the build costs each time so it is not really worthwhile to do so, which means seafaring is the best choice due to the 1000 short fall on ship upgrades.

[So Rowdy]

Thanks for the clarification :razz:

[Alistair]

The patch to Random Event rewards is somewhat annoying. It insisted on giving me Fortunes of the Sea, Captain Reroll and Crew Reroll, all of which I had maxed, even though I had other options free like the Seasinger's Bottled Cry.

Fair enough for stopping people from stacking adventurer and voyage rerolls, but I'd like something at least somewhat useful given the rarity of random events. Unless something better than the 10k captain is confirmed, I really don't need a captain reroll and I'm not getting stainless steel fast enough to ever need a crew reroll. I thought that being guaranteed the +10% seafaring/morale/combat items with everything else maxed was fair; they don't offer arguably overpowered advantages like the adventurer reroll. Now that it seems to completely disregard what items you already have, I'm thinking of just ignoring the random events.

[Yoko Kurama]

If you've gotten to a point where you can comfortably manage 80%-90% on scroll missions, you may want to consider sticking around in a region to get scrolls more easily. Progression into the Pincers for scroll missions is much, much harsher than that for Scythe to Bowl.

 

Basically this. Not only do scroll voyages(well, all voyages) in Pincers take longer, have much sterner requirements, but presumably you're only supposed to be able to get a decent success % on them if you buy all/most of the Pincers upgrades which will take a very long time to get. At the moment I can comfortably get 85-90% on my scrolls. I have decided I will stick around after all, for the Scrolls. Should take me another 30 days or so to get the armour scrolls. This will incidentally also give me enough distance to get into Pincers. So I will have all the scrolls(or hopefully most of them) and be poised to just do the Trade-Voyages.

[chenw]

I don't understand this whole "stop at early region to collect scrolls" thing. Wouldn't doing fewer missions per day (only scrolls) negate any time saved by doing 4 hour scroll missions instead of 8?

 

Later regions when you are strapped for time to squeeze in as much voyages as you can, that time taken for scrolls will start eat into your other voyages. This doesn't apply, at least not to the same degree in earlier regions as they are in Pincer (A scroll voyage there basically hogs up one of your ships for an entire day, or at least a very large part of it).

 

There is also the rerolls to consider. It's very easy to be able to send out for 2, or even 3 scroll voyages if rerolls were good, that won't happen in pincer (if not for the lack of time, the lack of crew).

 

Speaking of rerolls...

 

I had sent out a whaler scroll earlier today, it was full on SF so I sent out my best Seafaring setup (5 SF only crew), albeit only managing something like 65% chance. Then I rerolled adventurers before that ship got back, and I got Morale/SF scroll voyage, and all I had left to send out for SF was my sea witch, which I was surprised I was able to manage 62%. Sent it.

 

Then I realised I have a 5800 all JoD Voyage, with literally no sf crew left. I got as much out of my bureaucrat as possible, after using 2 siren tears and powder keg, I got it up to 96%...

 

JoD will probably succeed, but I have a bad feeling about the scrolls lol