11-Dec-2013 - The Bird and the Beast (World Event 2)

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think the combat formula is bad now, it just should change depending on what gear you wield imo

 

eg keep the def + 2 + x base but change what x is (for pvp at least)

Melee gear x = (att+str)/2

Mage gear x = mage lvl

Ranged gear x = range lvl

Hybrid gear x = (att+str+mage+range)/4 unless it is >20ish levels different from your best single class in which case tht is used - just to avoid the issue of say a ranged pure at 99 1 1 1 coming out at 126/127 since the 'cheat' of hiding ur true abilities by pureing is kinda a broken mechanic in terms of healthy pvp. Since these 'modes' would be best served by looking primarily at weapons could even make hybrid adaptive based on what weapons you have with you. So some hybridding 2 styles it could take out the other one to agan make the lvl shown more relivant to the abilities they will spew out.

 

That way you actually have a rough idea of someones stats for the setup they are using, especially if they throw a little icon or a font colour in the mix to show it (green, orange and blue already exist after all for class crits)

[strilmus]

having a level reilant on gear would also force gear locking while in combat, thereby disabling gear switching entirely and enforcing the combat triangle to the point where you can pretty much decide battles immediately by gear loadout unless they're both the same class type

[Alg]

Which would be a good argument for lessening the impact the combat triangle has: say, a mage has a slight advantage over a meleer*, but not enough to guarantee victory. Or just fix up hybrid gear or something.

 

*Aside from the whole "melee is locked to 1 range and mages get all sorts of fun toys" thing, I mean.

[strilmus]

the problem with making them almost even is that melee would then have a distinct disadvantage due to the way mobility works in runescape, in addition to the area of effect ultimates which mainly inconvenience melee fighters

[Yoko Kurama]

Is this the same combat formula that was almost painfully arbitrary and didn't actually tell you anything about your opponent's levels before 138?

 

It was a hundred times better than the current one which asserts that someone with 99 in all combat stats and someone with only 99 defense and 99 Mage are both maxed. The current combat formula also has the audacity to suggest that prayer is non-combat - a joke.

 

There are 8 combat skills, and yet the current combat formula suggests that if you have 2 out of 8 (or one-fourth) at 99, then you're maxed. It's as sensible as Jagex handing out Max Capes to everyone who has 1/4 of all skills at 99. It was obviously designed to placate noobs and make them feel as if they were maxed combat even when they aren't.

[Alg]

And yet, before maxing, the old combat formula was so easy to exploit and so unhelpful that it was the laughingstock of these very forums.. Have we forgotten that?

 

The game doesn't exist solely at 2595. Both you and Jagex should remember that. The game is such an unbalanced mess right now because they've made prestige come before function, often at the cost of everything that EoC was made to combat in the first place.

 

A formula that changes based on what you're using is probably the closest we'll get to a helpful and working formula. Using every combat stat, when they're not all relevant to the fight at hand, isn't helpful.

[Tim]

I dunno why so many maxed players are chucking a hissy-fit. Equipment plays a huge part still. The scaling helps them put up a fight, and on a rare occurrence win. But a player with nex gear + ovl + 95 pray + siesmic shit is still going to slaughter a level 120 with dragon. (which of course brings us all back to the rich dominate RS, poor in dust etc etc which is another topic)

[ACK]

True, Jagex should re-work on runescape combat with help from their elite players.. 'cus the players whom play the game, it's good to work together

for now Jagex should stop making new armour/weapons until new skill comes.

and i like the idea of leveling your items,

one more thing, what about summoning? it's useless unless Jagex also work on it.

[Yoko Kurama]

And yet, before maxing, the old combat formula was so easy to exploit and so unhelpful that it was the laughingstock of these very forums.. Have we forgotten that?

 

The game doesn't exist solely at 2595. Both you and Jagex should remember that. The game is such an unbalanced mess right now because they've made prestige come before function, often at the cost of everything that EoC was made to combat in the first place.

 

A formula that changes based on what you're using is probably the closest we'll get to a helpful and working formula. Using every combat stat, when they're not all relevant to the fight at hand, isn't helpful.

 

The old combat formula was far from perfect and was not my preference, but at least it had some use. The new one is far far worse and has practically no use. One of the most startling indicators is at Dungeoneering or bossing. Before, if I saw someone that was level 120-130ish or 138, I could be very certain that they were competent at combat. Nowadays, everyone is 200 combat and I have absolutely no way to distinguish them with combat. This is not a post in favour of the old combat formula, but rather how horrible the new one is.

 

Also: the combat formula should be a hollistic thing. As it is, most of the old pures, or people who focused at a particular combat stat to the detriment of others (such as a mage pure) are for the most part gone. Most people these days try to train combat across the board. Max combat (the highest level) should only be available to those who are maxed in combat; they can have variations or some sort of indicator for certain situations, but max combat should mean... max combat.

[brunokiller]

 

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

 

This would be grand and great if we lived in a world where people looking to pvp only went after people equal to them in order to have a good fight allowing lower geared and lower levelled and fighting chance of surviving/experience pvp with their equals.

 

But alas we live in a world where Drygore Bob, Ascension Susan and Seismic Joe will go on a merry slaughtering spree repeatedly killing anyone and everything that crosses their path with no second thought of the fact they are weaker people with no chance of survival who don't offer a real in-depth pvp experience or that their hapless slaughtering spree can quite dramatically ruin the entire notion of pvp for these fledgling players who really need to stick with it in order for pvp to flourish once more, driving them away from ever touching pvp again.

 

The reason low levels die so quick has more to do with how shit they are at eoc (here join 3/4rd of the level 200s as well) than their levels or gear.

 

When two noobs fight a 200 and be smart about it (provoke, shield abilities and so on) the 200s is going to have a hard time killing either of them.

[Golvellius]

The PVP would have been better with the old system.

Everything multi-way is stupid.

Melee is like dog shit in eoc, so its all rangers or mages tagging people while dancing about the zone line.

[V O R K]

 

 

 

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

 

This would be grand and great if we lived in a world where people looking to pvp only went after people equal to them in order to have a good fight allowing lower geared and lower levelled and fighting chance of surviving/experience pvp with their equals.

 

But alas we live in a world where Drygore Bob, Ascension Susan and Seismic Joe will go on a merry slaughtering spree repeatedly killing anyone and everything that crosses their path with no second thought of the fact they are weaker people with no chance of survival who don't offer a real in-depth pvp experience or that their hapless slaughtering spree can quite dramatically ruin the entire notion of pvp for these fledgling players who really need to stick with it in order for pvp to flourish once more, driving them away from ever touching pvp again.

 

 

People will inevitably PJ people, and do 10v1. I have seen plenty of noobs PJ higher level players in this event. How is this any better than higher level players going on a killing spree? At least the higher level player owning others, sort of makes sense. All damage scaling does is give noobs a totally unwarranted advantage. 

 

 

Because low levels taking down a high level requires forethought and effort and tactics and a merit of skill and they know they may not make it.

A high level mindlessly slaughtering low levels requires clicking then waiting for them to drop dead with no thought or skill invovled.

 

 

Tell that to the CB100 / 99 99 1 pures though, THEY KNOW :@!

 

Also what bruno said, the provoke ability is in fact dmg scaling... 50 percent is a lot.

 

&agreed^, we need a force solo ability/spell/weapon/magic divi thingy, somethingsomething. ;)

 

Excuse me though? i'm hulksmashing prayers away :), no mage/ranger can do that!

[Wkw]

I forgot to mention that because summoning can count as a combat stat, you can have a character with 99 def, 99 summoning, an d 1 everything else... And they are expected to stand up to someone with 99 in a "does damage" stat? How?

 

Also, two people with maxed melees, and top gear.. One has 1 prayer, the other has 99. Who is going to win, I may ask? Who.

[strilmus]

I dunno why so many maxed players are chucking a hissy-fit. Equipment plays a huge part still. The scaling helps them put up a fight, and on a rare occurrence win. But a player with nex gear + ovl + 95 pray + siesmic shit is still going to slaughter a level 120 with dragon. (which of course brings us all back to the rich dominate RS, poor in dust etc etc which is another topic)

the way the current rules are set up, anybody at combat level 189 or below will not reward combat level 200 players with skulls, so basically those people are pointless to actually fight for maxed playeres, but will be continuously engaged by them anyway since they can basically use the same gear after a certain point

[Yoko Kurama]

 

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

So that lower level players can actually participate in the PvP side of the event without getting massacred the minute they set foot near a node. The event is for everyone, after all, and it's only really a "reward" because Jagex is shit at balance: if they were at all competent in this regard it would basically just make combat less one-sided (Aren't you one of the people that's usually in favor of that sort of thing?)

 

 

Better to just segregate people by levels or something, rather than making a mockery out of the whole notion of a combat level hierarchy. All the current solution does is give lower level players an unfair advantage. 

[Wkw]

But that is just with the world event.

 

In general pvp, someone with 99 asdhp is going to beat someone with 99 adh

[Ts_Stormrage]

The PVP would have been better with the old system.

Everything multi-way is stupid.

Melee is like dog shit in eoc, so its all rangers or mages tagging people while dancing about the zone line.

As opposed to F2P melee is in pre-eoc

[brunokiller]

 

The PVP would have been better with the old system.

Everything multi-way is stupid.

Melee is like dog shit in eoc, so its all rangers or mages tagging people while dancing about the zone line.

As opposed to F2P melee is in pre-eoc

 

> f2p

[Alg]

> f2p

Is there some point you're getting at here or is it just some good old fashioned I-pay-$5-a-month elitism?

[Ts_Stormrage]

By FAR most PvP is done in F2P, So the point I made is definitely a valid one...

 

Whatever beef Bruno has with F2P, I'm curious...

[Quyneax]

I think the point is that Jagex is keeping F2P as a demo in all but name, and that expecting any kind of balancing to take F2P into account is sadly rather fanciful. That is, of course, assuming there is any balancing at all.

[Yoko Kurama]

I think the point is that Jagex is keeping F2P as a demo in all but name, and that expecting any kind of balancing to take F2P into account is sadly rather fanciful. That is, of course, assuming there is any balancing at all.

 

This. I don't know why anyone would play F2P. In the old days, I would do some F2P in between my P2P runs, but I definitely wouldn't do that in 2014, given the transparent neglect of it. The fact that F2P has a diminutive player base as opposed to a massive one just a few years ago seems to confirm, for me, that others feel the same way.

[inner fears]

wasnt t3 supposed to come out today?

[Saradomin_Mage]

A bit under 8 hours to go

[inner fears]

is it just me or transfigure is waste of 4 big lamps lol