11-Dec-2013 - The Bird and the Beast (World Event 2)

[Alg]

Thing is, "still get hit often" doesn't really make for a meaningful change. Maybe if tank armor (And especially shields) had some kind of damage reduction?

[Cheefoo]

Thing is, "still get hit often" doesn't really make for a meaningful change. Maybe if tank armor (And especially shields) had some kind of damage reduction?

That would be nice. I kinda like how the damage scaling works in the world event, because people seem to be generally hitting less. Instead of doing like 2k per hit (slice basics), I'm doing ~1k hits. I don't know if this should be something exclusive to tank armor, or if PvP should have damage reduction all around.

 

That's not to say that the damage scaling in the WE2 isn't all kinds of broken in many situations. Facing a level 180 with the same equipment as you means you're going to get hit for 2k's and barely be able to hit 1k on them.

 

If I wasn't "still getting hit often", PvP would be lame. That's one thing EoC definitely does better than prEoC: you can actually hit each other, even though you're wearing armor. The real reason pures were so popular was because it made the fighting faster, not because it gave them an actual long-term-fight advantage over non-pures.

 

For PvM, tank armor definitely needs some kind of bonus over non-tank, and I think some kind of damage reduction would be reasonable. But in PvP, the minor damage boost that power armor gives really won't win you fights, while the "reduce damage to zero, and prevents stuns, DoTs, special effects etc. randomly" that tank armor allows you will have more of a game-changing benefit.

 

My proposals:

 

1. Give tank armor minor damage reduction against non-players. Maybe it would be a percentage, or a flat damage reduction (like 200 less damage PER HIT at full level 85 armor), or some kind of soaking effect (so it will only reduce high hits, making it more suited for boss fights)

 

2. Damage in PvP should be reduced, perhaps halved entirely. This is regardless of armor types, as tank armor's higher block chance is already quite generous.

 

3. Perhaps power armor could actually have a percent-based damage boost, because right now it's really not suited for PvP at all.

 

4. Hybrid armor should allow some sort of "quick-switch" that ignores the 5 second cooldown that usually occurs upon changing equipment. Totally unrelated, but I'd like to throw it out there.

[V O R K]

Or slow down fights with overhead prayers. :c

[decebal]

... You can get sara warpriest boots as a drop from sara followers in gwd, not sure which ones.

 

Also, if you're going to be afk for that long, how hard is it to LOG OUT

1. I am F2P, as Alg mentioned.

2. It takes exactly two clicks to log out. Two more clicks than I am used to. It might not sound like much, but it's two clicks that I now have to pay attention.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the idea of ambushes (I have a feeling I was one of the few people that enjoyed deadly randoms back in the day!), but the fact that this was so sudden somewhat irked me. There was no mention on the front page, nor was there a notification in-game that what we used to take for granted, the safety of our valuables, is not true anymore. Hey, I wouldn't even have cared that I died if it wasn't for the fact that one of the items that I lost is literally irreplaceable (and a strong item, at that).

 

The funny thing is, that death would have been prevented if I had auto-retaliate on.

[strilmus]

yeah, i've noticed that the most effective way to deprive other people of skulls is to have a level just below 190 so that you can harass them with the same level gear, but they're not gonna get anything from winning at all

 

until they make maxed gear items (or make the range 20 levels), it'll basically be like fighting pures

 

another note: the delay for switching gear in a fight sounds large, but since people generally aren't fast enough to change their tactics when you do so, it you can easily get the upper hand in fights where people assume that being ranged and targeting mages means that they're not suddenly gonna be rushed by an angry meleer

 

ofc there's still the deal with meleers having a disadvantage overall but it's still fun to do

[brunokiller]

6. Use protect/deflect prayers. Soul split should be saved for PvM. In PvP, protect prayers are invaluable for reducing the opponent's ability to kill you during a stun, and reducing the stun duration itself. Soul split's tiny bit of healing simply doesn't compare.

I hate this. Even without protection prayers fights can take forever, especially if one is low level or someone is using a shield. They remove any chance to get a ko.

 

If I wanted to press the same buttons and combos for 20 minutes I'd kill dummies.

 

I found it much easier pre eoc to juggle and disposing of people when I'm getting piled.

 

Frankly I wish they'd do away with this damage scaling for low levels, because I'm getting tired of:

 

1) Getting piled by a bunch of level 150s and dying.

 

2) Fighting level 150s who then pray/run off/flame me because 'omg you're such a mean high level fighting noobs' when they're stronger than I am.

 

3) It taking 10x longer to kill a 150 than a 200.

 

4) Not getting skulls after all this trouble.

 

 

Frankly it wouldn't hurt them to ease the combat triangle a bit, or at least not penalize hybriding.

[V O R K]

Start using provoke if you're annoyed by several. It counters the DMG scaling somewhat and just lure them to your teammate :).

 

Check korra's elite PK videos if you want to see the top tiers. Otherwise I diy with gano/barrow/blisterwood/chaotics quite well. or sometimes even neitz as helm or wp as boots/gloves/cape but I hate losing that.

 

Nice tips cheefoo, along with the new ability 6. is definetly true. It's actually kind of great I just pray the other style the guy has so when I meet a range/mager I can be safe from one style and just start hybridding/meleeing myself. I think the first two days of the event there was practically no ability delay after switching, me and several clanmembers noticed this. It's a bit slower again now (or we're just seeing things LOL) but it's better then before. I still hate being a prayernoob.

 

Lets hope for the best! Mod pi's thread is quite large but if you have any suggestions/tips the PvP forum can always use them ;o<3

[J35u5_M4]

How often do the alchemists appear? I need to get a total of 23 if I want to have any hopes of buying all the rewards from both factions :/

[Sy_Accursed]

How often do the alchemists appear? I need to get a total of 23 if I want to have any hopes of buying all the rewards from both factions :/

 

They are quite rare but if you use the 'node find' fc they can usually help you get ~1-5 a day depending on luck.

 

Sometimes it'll be dead for like 5 hours then you'll get a bunch close together, other times you get a pretty steady stream of 1 every 30 mins or so, but it is doable using them.

 

I've been using it to see if I can get enough extra renown to allow me to end on Arma Dragon token; just short of gold atm cause I took a few days off.

[Dwoofie]

 

How often do the alchemists appear? I need to get a total of 23 if I want to have any hopes of buying all the rewards from both factions :/

 

They are quite rare but if you use the 'node find' fc they can usually help you get ~1-5 a day depending on luck.

 

Sometimes it'll be dead for like 5 hours then you'll get a bunch close together, other times you get a pretty steady stream of 1 every 30 mins or so, but it is doable using them.

 

I've been using it to see if I can get enough extra renown to allow me to end on Arma Dragon token; just short of gold atm cause I took a few days off.

 

 

Is there something better than the Node Find FC?

[helring]

 

 

How often do the alchemists appear? I need to get a total of 23 if I want to have any hopes of buying all the rewards from both factions :/

 

They are quite rare but if you use the 'node find' fc they can usually help you get ~1-5 a day depending on luck.

 

Sometimes it'll be dead for like 5 hours then you'll get a bunch close together, other times you get a pretty steady stream of 1 every 30 mins or so, but it is doable using them.

 

I've been using it to see if I can get enough extra renown to allow me to end on Arma Dragon token; just short of gold atm cause I took a few days off.

 

 

Is there something better than the Node Find FC?

 

 

No, the alchs are extremely random it seems. So what you get is what you get

[bebow]

Hey, I was wondering how much renown points can a f2p get each day? Say if s/he started the event yesterday would they still be able to get enough points to get the warpriest armour, abilities and emotes?

[Sy_Accursed]

Hey, I was wondering how much renown points can a f2p get each day? Say if s/he started the event yesterday would they still be able to get enough points to get the warpriest armour, abilities and emotes?

 

F2p is capped at 14k a day

586k for all rewards from 1 side

Makes for 41.8 days which is longer than the events total run time, let alone coming in on day 15.

 

So no it is not really possible for you get all rewards at this point

[Yoko Kurama]

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

 

This would be grand and great if we lived in a world where people looking to pvp only went after people equal to them in order to have a good fight allowing lower geared and lower levelled and fighting chance of surviving/experience pvp with their equals.

 

But alas we live in a world where Drygore Bob, Ascension Susan and Seismic Joe will go on a merry slaughtering spree repeatedly killing anyone and everything that crosses their path with no second thought of the fact they are weaker people with no chance of survival who don't offer a real in-depth pvp experience or that their hapless slaughtering spree can quite dramatically ruin the entire notion of pvp for these fledgling players who really need to stick with it in order for pvp to flourish once more, driving them away from ever touching pvp again.

[Alg]

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

So that lower level players can actually participate in the PvP side of the event without getting massacred the minute they set foot near a node. The event is for everyone, after all, and it's only really a "reward" because Jagex is shit at balance: if they were at all competent in this regard it would basically just make combat less one-sided (Aren't you one of the people that's usually in favor of that sort of thing?)

[Yoko Kurama]

 

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

 

This would be grand and great if we lived in a world where people looking to pvp only went after people equal to them in order to have a good fight allowing lower geared and lower levelled and fighting chance of surviving/experience pvp with their equals.

 

But alas we live in a world where Drygore Bob, Ascension Susan and Seismic Joe will go on a merry slaughtering spree repeatedly killing anyone and everything that crosses their path with no second thought of the fact they are weaker people with no chance of survival who don't offer a real in-depth pvp experience or that their hapless slaughtering spree can quite dramatically ruin the entire notion of pvp for these fledgling players who really need to stick with it in order for pvp to flourish once more, driving them away from ever touching pvp again.

 

 

People will inevitably PJ people, and do 10v1. I have seen plenty of noobs PJ higher level players in this event. How is this any better than higher level players going on a killing spree? At least the higher level player owning others, sort of makes sense. All damage scaling does is give noobs a totally unwarranted advantage. 

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

I don't understand damage scaling. Why are we rewarding lower level players for being... lower level players? If I'm higher combat than you, I'm sort of supposed to own you in combat  -- that's sort of the whole point. As if the combat formula in EoC wasn't nooby enough.

 

This would be grand and great if we lived in a world where people looking to pvp only went after people equal to them in order to have a good fight allowing lower geared and lower levelled and fighting chance of surviving/experience pvp with their equals.

 

But alas we live in a world where Drygore Bob, Ascension Susan and Seismic Joe will go on a merry slaughtering spree repeatedly killing anyone and everything that crosses their path with no second thought of the fact they are weaker people with no chance of survival who don't offer a real in-depth pvp experience or that their hapless slaughtering spree can quite dramatically ruin the entire notion of pvp for these fledgling players who really need to stick with it in order for pvp to flourish once more, driving them away from ever touching pvp again.

 

 

People will inevitably PJ people, and do 10v1. I have seen plenty of noobs PJ higher level players in this event. How is this any better than higher level players going on a killing spree? At least the higher level player owning others, sort of makes sense. All damage scaling does is give noobs a totally unwarranted advantage. 

 

 

Because low levels taking down a high level requires forethought and effort and tactics and a merit of skill and they know they may not make it.

A high level mindlessly slaughtering low levels requires clicking then waiting for them to drop dead with no thought or skill invovled.

[Quyneax]

Unbalanced PvP has nothing to do with levels, it has to do with equipment. Instead of giving lower levels a damage boost, each tower should hold free weapons and armour of every tier up to 99, claimable once per day per tier of token you have, usable only in PvP within the event PvP zones. Ideally the equipment would just be one item per style per slot (and of hybrid/power/tank varieties) that scales to the user's levels.

[strilmus]

what, like the sinkhole autoequip gear?

[Ned]

Well, let them get their confidence boost from this ridiculously scaled PvP, and we'll see what happens when it actually matters in the Wilderness.

[Ts_Stormrage]

I feel this PvP discussion deserves its own thread and should be split off from this one...

 

ESPECIALLY now that Jagex is going to revamp the whole thing...

[Quyneax]

what, like the sinkhole autoequip gear?

I suppose that works as well, if you allow some choice of setup. The point is that since it's safe pvp and everybody is supposed to be able to join, which you don't achieve by leaving 3b seismics wielded by 170s mixed with chaotics wielded by 200s. If you want to encourage participation in PvP, then you must equalize equipment. It is the single biggest and nearly only factor separating the good (well set-up) accounts from the bad, given that stats past 90 don't matter and abilities don't go past 85.

[Wkw]

The "combat formula" is as stupid as it is.

 

It would work much better if we had dedicated classes. lvl 99 defense + whatever else would make you lvl 200.

Before eoc, combat levels meant a LOOOOT more. Are you lvl 138? They are going to wreck you, no matter what armor or weapons they have.

Dagannoth kings are lvl 303? That is because they are going to give you another hole if you aren't prepared.

Jad was lvl 702? That is because it rhymes with "one-hit-you"

xXx99pkXxl1 is lvl 103? In d skirt with torso? Chances are he isn't going to kill a 138 very fast

 

Now, Bob and Joe are both lvl 200. One has 99 def and range, the other has 99 def and attack. Looks like they aren't going to be very effective killing each other.

[Alg]

Is this the same combat formula that was almost painfully arbitrary and didn't actually tell you anything about your opponent's levels before 138?