I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

well thanks for removing my constructive debate about how i thought that skilling and pvp shouldnt be related........................................... i swear mods on here screw up all the time, i put quite a lot of effort typing my thoughts up and you just remove it way to go

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

Seems like my post was removed as well. I'm fairly certain that my post contained no personal attacks and I was discussing the topic.

stilllll dissapointed there was no healing related pot to make up for the higher dmg, at least add a higher healing pot or change hp its getting out of hand, who wouldt train till 95 herblore for an extreme saradomin brew?

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

well thanks for removing my constructive debate about how i thought that skilling and pvp shouldnt be related........................................... i swear mods on here screw up all the time, i put quite a lot of effort typing my thoughts up and you just remove it way to go

 

I agree. There was no need to remove his posts at all. He WAS contributing to the thread. Almost seems suspicious that the guy who doesn't agree gets his posts removed for seemingly no apparent reason.

 

Anyway, I'll respond to your last post, Silo. I understand your sentiments, but I don't agree that not enjoying an aspect of the game should mean that you shouldn't have to engage in that aspect. Regardless of that, however, I don't think that the Herblore update would have affected PVP as much as you think it would. Very few players have access to the full range of extreme potions, and a large portion of those players are more than likely not player killers. On top of that, I don't think most player killers have the money to invest in 85+ Herblore. Seems like they'd rather put that money into D claws, Morrigan's Javs, 99 Mage, etc, etc.

 

tl;dr I don't think it would have affected PVP all THAT much, except in the case of very high level PVP.

So because PvPers don't like training Herblore means that it shouldn't give a benefit. If you are patient enough to raise the money to train Herblore, I think you should receive a decent benefit, regardless whether people are willing to train it or not. If you put effort into training Herblore, you should gain a reward respective to your efforts.

it should, but not in pvp. pvp is 100% based on combat, it shouldnt be based on things that people who enjoy the combat aspect of the game dont enjoy

 

Then explain the notion of Super sets. Godswords. DFS. Slayer gear. ALL of that stuff comes from skillers. You can't sit here and tell me that this stuff could have come from someone or something else that wasn't directly related to skilling. If you wanted PvP combat to not be based on certain aspects of the game that players don't enjoy, let's start with abolishing Godswords.

 

Truth be told, I've watched your argument, and you're just clutching at straws here gongusan. You're saying that potions shouldn't be used in PvP, but I'm willing to bet that just about every PKer has used a potion of some kind in PvP. You're also playing a lot into the "ultimate power" trap, as well - you want to be the most powerful player on the field at all times, and if you cannot be, then you complain about it.

 

Face it. 5,000 players that had that advantage over you wasn't a big deal. Out of those 5,000, and if we could trust the polls (6% said they PKed actively), you're looking at a little over 250 players PKing against you that provide a legitimate threat. You can't seriously tell me that out of 60,000 players, those 250 people would be the most feared on the field.

 

Lastly, it's too bad that you don't like training skills. Guess what? RuneScape doesn't revolve around PKing! Updates that are made to cater to PKers for the most inane reasons are rather disappointing...but I suppose it was to appease the minority. I've said it before, but I'd grudgingly accept the decision if the potions could be used in safe PvP, such that only a little pride was lost when you died against someone with Miasmic Barrage...

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

well thanks for removing my constructive debate about how i thought that skilling and pvp shouldnt be related........................................... i swear mods on here screw up all the time, i put quite a lot of effort typing my thoughts up and you just remove it way to go

 

I agree. There was no need to remove his posts at all. He WAS contributing to the thread. Almost seems suspicious that the guy who doesn't agree gets his posts removed for seemingly no apparent reason.

 

Anyway, I'll respond to your last post, Silo. I understand your sentiments, but I don't agree that not enjoying an aspect of the game should mean that you shouldn't have to engage in that aspect. Regardless of that, however, I don't think that the Herblore update would have affected PVP as much as you think it would. Very few players have access to the full range of extreme potions, and a large portion of those players are more than likely not player killers. On top of that, I don't think most player killers have the money to invest in 85+ Herblore. Seems like they'd rather put that money into D claws, Morrigan's Javs, 99 Mage, etc, etc.

 

tl;dr I don't think it would have affected PVP all THAT much, except in the case of very high level PVP.

considering the effects the potions had, i think pkers wouldve bought 90+ herb over buying claws etc, since hitting 40+ with barrage is a lot more deadly than claws or anything else, and if it had stayed that way then after a few months pvp would be chaos with edgeville hybrids killing all the 1v1ers etc etc. i think jagex did a very good job removing them; if you looked on rsof there were loads of people complaining, seemed to me only skillers/pkers with 90 herb weren't complaining.

 

EDIT: and as for you makoto, those things may come FROM skillers, but we buy them from them, they get their money, we get our pots, it's not like we have to make them all ourself. and for saying runescape doesnt revolve around pking, thats true, but for some people it does and those people dont want to be forced to do things they dont want. i mean would you like it if you were forced to pk in order to train or something? idk how to compare it, but to me its not fair we should be forced to do things we dont like in a game; it takes away the FREEDOM that runescape is supposed to be all about and as its advertised

considering the effects the potions had, i think pkers wouldve bought 90+ herb over buying claws etc, since hitting 40+ with barrage is a lot more deadly than claws or anything else, and if it had stayed that way then after a few months pvp would be chaos with edgeville hybrids killing all the 1v1ers etc etc. i think jagex did a very good job removing them; if you looked on rsof there were loads of people complaining, seemed to me only skillers/pkers with 90 herb weren't complaining.

 

I think I have to agree that a 40% increase in damage was a little much, and in that case, it makes a HUGE difference between mages with 91 Herblore and mages without it. A +7 strength boost difference between extreme and super potions isn't really game breaking, IMO, so I feel that those should be left alone. A few other posters suggested that there be a middle ground, tradable mage potion that increased max hit by 20-25%, which sounds a lot more reasonable to me.

 

Am I correct in thinking that your biggest problem with the update was the mage potion, Silo?

considering the effects the potions had, i think pkers wouldve bought 90+ herb over buying claws etc, since hitting 40+ with barrage is a lot more deadly than claws or anything else, and if it had stayed that way then after a few months pvp would be chaos with edgeville hybrids killing all the 1v1ers etc etc. i think jagex did a very good job removing them; if you looked on rsof there were loads of people complaining, seemed to me only skillers/pkers with 90 herb weren't complaining.

 

I think I have to agree that a 40% increase in damage was a little much, and in that case, it makes a HUGE difference between mages with 91 Herblore and mages without it. A +7 strength boost difference between extreme and super potions isn't really game breaking, IMO, so I feel that those should be left alone. A few other posters suggested that there be a middle ground, tradable mage potion that increased max hit by 20-25%, which sounds a lot more reasonable to me.

 

Am I correct in thinking that your biggest problem with the update was the mage potion, Silo?

yeah, the mage potion was the most overpowered thing, although i still think the range and melee ones were a bit ott. the max with dbow was gonna be something like 52-52 if i remember, even at 99hp its instant death, and with the melee ones you could whip 50s, 7 difference is a LOT, trust me, its the equivalent of 2 combat levels, and without herby increasing ur combat level its stupid unless they were tradable.

considering the effects the potions had, i think pkers wouldve bought 90+ herb over buying claws etc, since hitting 40+ with barrage is a lot more deadly than claws or anything else, and if it had stayed that way then after a few months pvp would be chaos with edgeville hybrids killing all the 1v1ers etc etc. i think jagex did a very good job removing them; if you looked on rsof there were loads of people complaining, seemed to me only skillers/pkers with 90 herb weren't complaining.

 

yeah, the mage potion was the most overpowered thing, although i still think the range and melee ones were a bit ott. the max with dbow was gonna be something like 52-52 if i remember, even at 99hp its instant death, and with the melee ones you could whip 50s, 7 difference is a LOT, trust me, its the equivalent of 2 combat levels, and without herby increasing ur combat level its stupid unless they were tradable.

 

 

You imply from these posts that your main issue is that only people with high level herblore can recieve the benefits of the potions. If everyone could OHKO, the update would be quite balanced, but because it's only available to people with level 90 Herblore, it's unfair to the people who don't have 90 Herblore. Am I correct?

 

Or are you discontent with the update because Herblore is not represented in combat level, and would thus give an advantage to people who actually possess a high Herblore level? Well, I believe the Godswords do not factor into your combat level, and yet they cost 70 Million GP. That's not really fair to me, who can only afford an abyssal whip, now is it? We're the same combat level, but he has an advantage! That's not fair at all! Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

So, did you oppose the update because people had the ability to OHKO, or that Herblore should not give a combat advantage? If it's the former, then I agree that Jagex's idea of increasing the potential of a combat skill is to raise the potential max hit, which I believe is a terrible way to balance the combat system. If that's the case, then I completely agree with you, but should be balanced by raising the potential of defense to counter-act the ever increasing damage weapons can issue. If it's the latter, then I've phrased an argument opposing that limited idea several times now, including the paragraph above this one.

 

And oh yes, the RSOF is completely the most educated source on the planet. Speaking of which, there seems to be quite a few people on the RSOF who seem to think it was rather unfair for Jagex to remove the potions. So exactly where did you get the idea that the majority of people found it to be a poor update? (Prior sampling doesn't count)

 

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

well thanks for removing my constructive debate about how i thought that skilling and pvp shouldnt be related........................................... i swear mods on here screw up all the time, i put quite a lot of effort typing my thoughts up and you just remove it way to go

 

I agree. There was no need to remove his posts at all. He WAS contributing to the thread. Almost seems suspicious that the guy who doesn't agree gets his posts removed for seemingly no apparent reason.

 

Anyway, I'll respond to your last post, Silo. I understand your sentiments, but I don't agree that not enjoying an aspect of the game should mean that you shouldn't have to engage in that aspect. Regardless of that, however, I don't think that the Herblore update would have affected PVP as much as you think it would. Very few players have access to the full range of extreme potions, and a large portion of those players are more than likely not player killers. On top of that, I don't think most player killers have the money to invest in 85+ Herblore. Seems like they'd rather put that money into D claws, Morrigan's Javs, 99 Mage, etc, etc.

 

tl;dr I don't think it would have affected PVP all THAT much, except in the case of very high level PVP.

 

Hmmm, well that's just not right. An opposition keeps the conversation going and raises points that were previously not addressed and should be.

 

Well, I have disagree with your last paragraph. If Player Killers can invest in D claws and 99 Magic, then it wouldn't be much of a strech (pardon spelling) for them to spend an extra 60 Million or so for the "Extreme" set. It may not be a standard now, but within a few months it may certainly be. But in any case, I'm not saying that the potions are overpowered. I would treat it like yet another new weapon that people have to save up for. ^^

 

And responding to the Bold: Thank you, that's what I was getting at.

EDIT: and as for you makoto, those things may come FROM skillers, but we buy them from them, they get their money, we get our pots, it's not like we have to make them all ourself. and for saying runescape doesnt revolve around pking, thats true, but for some people it does and those people dont want to be forced to do things they dont want. i mean would you like it if you were forced to pk in order to train or something? idk how to compare it, but to me its not fair we should be forced to do things we dont like in a game; it takes away the FREEDOM that runescape is supposed to be all about and as its advertised

 

Key question: Who said that you were forced to do anything? Recall what I said earlier, will you?

 

You're also playing a lot into the "ultimate power" trap, as well - you want to be the most powerful player on the field at all times, and if you cannot be, then you complain about it.

 

You do not have to have these potions to continue to function as a PKer. The proof is actually with this recent revision of the update; now that you can't use the potions in PvP, you can function normally. Is it because you're not interested in leveling Herblore that causes you to feel that your freedoms are jeopardized? Or do you just not care about any other aspect about RS except for PvP, and anything that affects the (read: your) PvP experience negatively must be removed?

 

As for your comment about being forced, again, I must ask you if I am realistically forced to do anything. If there were training options in the Wild that increased exp rates at a higher risk, I'd probably weigh them against currently existent methods of training. The one nice thing about skilling is that it's not nearly as affected by updates that introduce wild change like this; you can either use/make/create/harvest the item or you can't, full stop.

 

Again, you should answer the question first - who's making you get that high level Herblore? Jagex? You? Not really. You only think you're being forced because it's an option to max your hits.

considering the effects the potions had, i think pkers wouldve bought 90+ herb over buying claws etc, since hitting 40+ with barrage is a lot more deadly than claws or anything else, and if it had stayed that way then after a few months pvp would be chaos with edgeville hybrids killing all the 1v1ers etc etc. i think jagex did a very good job removing them; if you looked on rsof there were loads of people complaining, seemed to me only skillers/pkers with 90 herb weren't complaining.

 

yeah, the mage potion was the most overpowered thing, although i still think the range and melee ones were a bit ott. the max with dbow was gonna be something like 52-52 if i remember, even at 99hp its instant death, and with the melee ones you could whip 50s, 7 difference is a LOT, trust me, its the equivalent of 2 combat levels, and without herby increasing ur combat level its stupid unless they were tradable.

 

 

You imply from these posts that your main issue is that only people with high level herblore can recieve the benefits of the potions. If everyone could OHKO, the update would be quite balanced, but because it's only available to people with level 90 Herblore, it's unfair to the people who don't have 90 Herblore. Am I correct?

 

Or are you discontent with the update because Herblore is not represented in combat level, and would thus give an advantage to people who actually possess a high Herblore level? Well, I believe the Godswords do not factor into your combat level, and yet they cost 70 Million GP. That's not really fair to me, who can only afford an abyssal whip, now is it? We're the same combat level, but he has an advantage! That's not fair at all! Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

So, did you oppose the update because people had the ability to OHKO, or that Herblore should not give a combat advantage? If it's the former, then I agree that Jagex's idea of increasing the potential of a combat skill is to raise the potential max hit, which I believe is a terrible way to balance the combat system. If that's the case, then I completely agree with you, but should be balanced by raising the potential of defense to counter-act the ever increasing damage weapons can issue. If it's the latter, then I've phrased an argument opposing that limited idea several times now, including the paragraph above this one.

 

And oh yes, the RSOF is completely the most educated source on the planet. Speaking of which, there seems to be quite a few people on the RSOF who seem to think it was rather unfair for Jagex to remove the potions. So exactly where did you get the idea that the majority of people found it to be a poor update? (Prior sampling doesn't count)

 

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)

well thanks for removing my constructive debate about how i thought that skilling and pvp shouldnt be related........................................... i swear mods on here screw up all the time, i put quite a lot of effort typing my thoughts up and you just remove it way to go

 

I agree. There was no need to remove his posts at all. He WAS contributing to the thread. Almost seems suspicious that the guy who doesn't agree gets his posts removed for seemingly no apparent reason.

 

Anyway, I'll respond to your last post, Silo. I understand your sentiments, but I don't agree that not enjoying an aspect of the game should mean that you shouldn't have to engage in that aspect. Regardless of that, however, I don't think that the Herblore update would have affected PVP as much as you think it would. Very few players have access to the full range of extreme potions, and a large portion of those players are more than likely not player killers. On top of that, I don't think most player killers have the money to invest in 85+ Herblore. Seems like they'd rather put that money into D claws, Morrigan's Javs, 99 Mage, etc, etc.

 

tl;dr I don't think it would have affected PVP all THAT much, except in the case of very high level PVP.

 

Hmmm, well that's just not right. An opposition keeps the conversation going and raises points that were previously not addressed and should be.

 

Well, I have disagree with your last paragraph. If Player Killers can invest in D claws and 99 Magic, then it wouldn't be much of a strech (pardon spelling) for them to spend an extra 60 Million or so for the "Extreme" set. It may not be a standard now, but within a few months it may certainly be. But in any case, I'm not saying that the potions are overpowered. I would treat it like yet another new weapon that people have to save up for. ^^

 

And responding to the Bold: Thank you, that's what I was getting at.

 

 

If both players are at the same attack/strength/level, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage for not using an AGS against the other guy using it, since your combat level already shows that your maximum offence includes the possibility of using the best items at your level. However, the new herblore potions puts high herblore level player at an advantage without displaying it in the combat level. And because the potions are untradeable, you need to level to make, and hence use it, making herblore level somewhat a contributing combat stat, just like how summoning adds to your level whenever you have a pouch, even if you're not using the best pouch the same levels would be added.

 

Combat Level

Strength: The increased damage you can deal without any other strength adding equipment.

Attack: The increased access to better equipment you can wield for increased offence.

Defence: Same as attack, for increased defence.

Summoning: Further increase in level as long as you have a pouch in your inventory.

 

Cooking: I can eat sharks at level 1. It's up to players how much money they want to invest in food.

Low level herblore: Anyone can use a super set regardless of herblore level, so it's once again players' choice.

 

High level herblore: Access to extreme sets, only usable by high herblore players. Works seemingly like summoning. Therefore you have to either add more combat levels if you possess the potion in your inventory, or remove the use of these potions from PvP.

All I can say is, "Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!"

 

People who say, "It's unfair that they can hit ___ because ___..." Nothing is unfair! Everyone has an equal chance and opportunity at everything in RuneScape. It's not unfair that this person has high Herblore; He worked his butt off to make the money to pay for it... As could anyone else. There's GWD, skilling, etc.

 

Stupid. I was excited about this update and then they killed it.

Quests should give us combat levels right guys?

People dont seem to get to understand, these potions are amazing at PvM! We couldnt even had an update, so stop complaining aout how it is now a usless update and bla bla bla...

In order to be fair now we the combat level of a person should be influenced by what they are carrying in the inventory.

 

AGS vs D long = unfair.

 

Same logic as with superbrews.

 

You can't see what people have in their inventory. Maybe they approach you with a whip, pull out d Claws. I fail to see how these PKers that complained about the superbrews don't see this unfairness.

 

Mage vs Meleer = unfair

 

Should be forbidden also.

 

 

Anyway, I though PKers only did 76king nowadays.

If both players are at the same attack/strength/level, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage for not using an AGS against the other guy using it, since your combat level already shows that your maximum offence includes the possibility of using the best items at your level. However, the new herblore potions puts high herblore level player at an advantage without displaying it in the combat level. And because the potions are untradeable, you need to level to make, and hence use it, making herblore level somewhat a contributing combat stat, just like how summoning adds to your level whenever you have a pouch, even if you're not using the best pouch the same levels would be added.

 

Combat Level

Strength: The increased damage you can deal without any other strength adding equipment.

Attack: The increased access to better equipment you can wield for increased offence.

Defence: Same as attack, for increased defence.

Summoning: Further increase in level as long as you have a pouch in your inventory.

 

Cooking: I can eat sharks at level 1. It's up to players how much money they want to invest in food.

Low level herblore: Anyone can use a super set regardless of herblore level, so it's once again players' choice.

 

High level herblore: Access to extreme sets, only usable by high herblore players. Works seemingly like summoning. Therefore you have to either add more combat levels if you possess the potion in your inventory, or remove the use of these potions from PvP.

 

Wait, so if you have the requirements to use it, we should always assume you're using it?

 

Everyone with 75 Defense and Prayer is at a disadvantage of their own fault for not using a Divine Spirit Shield then. Damage calculations should always factor 30% damaged prevented, because if you choose not to use a DSS because you can't afford to or you prefer 2h weapons, then it's your fault.

 

This game isn't made for pures. It's designed so players level up as they play, and *hopefully* earn themselves nice bonuses to use with their levels.

 

It is a choice, yes, to not go make 100M to buy an Armadyl Godsword.

 

But hey, it is a choice to not go make and spend 300M training Herblore.

 

People dont seem to get to understand, these potions are amazing at PvM! We couldnt even had an update, so stop complaining aout how it is now a usless update and bla bla bla...

 

This is the problem. This isn't true. These potions are almost useless during PvM.

 

God Wars - You spend so much time getting kill count, searching for a world, and waiting for respawns that the few seconds you may save are entirely moot. Besides, using Extreme Attack / Strength / Range means either you'll need to use a lot of them (less room for brews / restores), or you can't use brews. In either case, that results in less healing, which meas less kills. Which means the amount of time you waste getting ready for the trip is spread over fewer kills, mathematically, you are taking longer. And who mages at GWD? Remember, spawn times - even if you do use magic, most of your potion will be wasted between spawns. We kill too fast already. Same deal for Special, you regain more than enough between kills to justify the waste of space.

 

Dagannoth Kings - Even worse than GWD. The potions are totally overkill, and barely hasten your trip. Extreme Magic is good, but again, spawn times eat up your potion. And again, kills per trip is paramount - at a glance, 40 kills in a 1 hour trip is better than 75 kills in a 2 hour trip, but this is simply not true once you factor the time you spend reaching there, setting up your inventory, clearing your inventory of loot, etc.

 

Barrows - Brought up by Paul, and ridiculous. Throughout a 10 minute barrow trip, you're lucky to spend 2-3 minutes actually casting. But you need to use 12 minutes worth of potions. And you save almost nothing, since most of the time spent is running around, not fighting.

 

So what does this leave?

 

Super Antifire Potion - Usable, I suppose, but irrelevant to PvP entirely, and thus this discussion.

Overload - Not enough testing to really draw any conclusions from.

 

And on top of this, to "check" how powerful a ranger is, Dark Bow now uses 65% energy for special (so that potting after special will result in 60%, not enough to special again). Except that you can't use said potion in PvP anyways.

NEVERMIND

found my posts lol

 

I couldnt find them D:

 

---

 

good, it's to over powed in pvp.

 

you point are not suport by fact, you just say opnion and wat jegax said.

 

Hmm, maybe you're right Oxide. >_>

 

I lol'd. :thumbup:

 

The difference, again, between rune armour and herblore is that defence AND the armour directly effects combat, and potions dont.

Also, IF rune was somehow 100M, Herblore would cost like 10B.

 

O and call me Ray. Nice to meet you ;p

 

Everyone with 75 Defense and Prayer is at a disadvantage of their own fault for not using a Divine Spirit Shield then. Damage calculations should always factor 30% damaged prevented, because if you choose not to use a DSS because you can't afford to or you prefer 2h weapons, then it's your fault.

It is a choice, yes, to not go make 100M to buy an Armadyl Godsword.

 

But hey, it is a choice to not go make and spend 300M training Herblore.

 

The big difference is that one is a one-time expense and the others aren't. You spend the money for 96 herblore it only costs you what? 75k for an overload and a special restore for your next pk trip? You use an AGS and die you're out that 100million. 450 million for a Divine spirit shield. If doses of the new potions cost 1-2m cash people probably wouldn't have complained nearly as much as they did, but as things were it would have been a choice not to train up the herblore for them, but would it have been a good choice? Not really :P .

The difference, again, between rune armour and herblore is that defence AND the armour directly effects combat, and potions dont.

Also, IF rune was somehow 100M, Herblore would cost like 10B.

 

O and call me Ray. Nice to meet you ;p

 

Essentially, herblore does reflects your combat level.

 

If you have a high herblore level, you are generally going to be a higher combat.

If you have a low herblore level, chances are you are a lower combat.

 

The one thing I don't get is why a lot of pkers wanted the removal of these potions.

It couldn't have been pures complaining that other pures will own them, because we all know the point of being a pure is hiding your true strength then hitting hard when people least expect it.

There was no way it was the rich high level pkers complaining, because they've got the cash to spend on the skill.

In no way was it clawers/rushers because they don't actually take damage when it comes down to it.

 

It must have been the middle level rune pkers complaining because they would of had to put time in the game to play, which is faulty in itself. Why would they complain, if in order to get KO's you need an AGS, and the time spent saving up for an AGS is more time than gaining 50m and getting 90 herblore.

 

The way to look at it, is that 90 herblore is like an AGS. It's going to be well worth it in the long run, and getting it will take a while.

 

 

My only problem is that Jagex decided to jump up and balance combat with higher hitting equipment. We don't need to hit higher until we can get more HP.

If both players are at the same attack/strength/level, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage for not using an AGS against the other guy using it, since your combat level already shows that your maximum offence includes the possibility of using the best items at your level. However, the new herblore potions puts high herblore level player at an advantage without displaying it in the combat level. And because the potions are untradeable, you need to level to make, and hence use it, making herblore level somewhat a contributing combat stat, just like how summoning adds to your level whenever you have a pouch, even if you're not using the best pouch the same levels would be added.

 

Combat Level

Strength: The increased damage you can deal without any other strength adding equipment.

Attack: The increased access to better equipment you can wield for increased offence.

Defence: Same as attack, for increased defence.

Summoning: Further increase in level as long as you have a pouch in your inventory.

 

Cooking: I can eat sharks at level 1. It's up to players how much money they want to invest in food.

Low level herblore: Anyone can use a super set regardless of herblore level, so it's once again players' choice.

 

High level herblore: Access to extreme sets, only usable by high herblore players. Works seemingly like summoning. Therefore you have to either add more combat levels if you possess the potion in your inventory, or remove the use of these potions from PvP.

 

Wait, so if you have the requirements to use it, we should always assume you're using it?

 

Everyone with 75 Defense and Prayer is at a disadvantage of their own fault for not using a Divine Spirit Shield then. Damage calculations should always factor 30% damaged prevented, because if you choose not to use a DSS because you can't afford to or you prefer 2h weapons, then it's your fault.

 

This game isn't made for pures. It's designed so players level up as they play, and *hopefully* earn themselves nice bonuses to use with their levels.

 

It is a choice, yes, to not go make 100M to buy an Armadyl Godsword.

 

But hey, it is a choice to not go make and spend 300M training Herblore.

 

People dont seem to get to understand, these potions are amazing at PvM! We couldnt even had an update, so stop complaining aout how it is now a usless update and bla bla bla...

 

This is the problem. This isn't true. These potions are almost useless during PvM.

 

God Wars - You spend so much time getting kill count, searching for a world, and waiting for respawns that the few seconds you may save are entirely moot. Besides, using Extreme Attack / Strength / Range means either you'll need to use a lot of them (less room for brews / restores), or you can't use brews. In either case, that results in less healing, which meas less kills. Which means the amount of time you waste getting ready for the trip is spread over fewer kills, mathematically, you are taking longer. And who mages at GWD? Remember, spawn times - even if you do use magic, most of your potion will be wasted between spawns. We kill too fast already. Same deal for Special, you regain more than enough between kills to justify the waste of space.

 

Dagannoth Kings - Even worse than GWD. The potions are totally overkill, and barely hasten your trip. Extreme Magic is good, but again, spawn times eat up your potion. And again, kills per trip is paramount - at a glance, 40 kills in a 1 hour trip is better than 75 kills in a 2 hour trip, but this is simply not true once you factor the time you spend reaching there, setting up your inventory, clearing your inventory of loot, etc.

 

Barrows - Brought up by Paul, and ridiculous. Throughout a 10 minute barrow trip, you're lucky to spend 2-3 minutes actually casting. But you need to use 12 minutes worth of potions. And you save almost nothing, since most of the time spent is running around, not fighting.

 

So what does this leave?

 

Super Antifire Potion - Usable, I suppose, but irrelevant to PvP entirely, and thus this discussion.

Overload - Not enough testing to really draw any conclusions from.

 

And on top of this, to "check" how powerful a ranger is, Dark Bow now uses 65% energy for special (so that potting after special will result in 60%, not enough to special again). Except that you can't use said potion in PvP anyways.

 

So by that logic: The new potions are only good for training combat, and the Dark bow suffered a pointless nerf.

Great now the Dark bow is even more useless then it was before!

PvM magic has its max hit increased, but it costs so damn much that you would have to be a moron to use it.

 

A great day in Runescape is it not?

Whoever mentioned the "hand-cannon" is completely correct, Jagex need to stand-firm on their updates.

 

They never changed the Prayers (65 and 70 Defence) to use the Piety and Chivalry lol.

No way in HECK this should have ever been allowed in dangerous PVP.

 

All is fair, skillers deserve a good update, and I adore the way herblore gave it to them.

 

But to be honest, if you really really really stand for being able to 1 hit someone with quite a margin who has a maxed hp bar, even if he has the highest defence bonus in the entire bloody game, then you shouldn't be talking.

 

I stand for a fight, not a one shot kill. That is not pking, it is a cowardice action.

 

The only game in which I have seen this much overpowering damage is in AvP2, where the predator could stealth, and instant kill someone with a 100% accuracy.

 

 

Although I see no reason why they left it outside of safe pvp like castlewars. I wouldn't mind getting myself completely owned by a high hit in there.

Wait, the Predators can one hit someone if your cloaked? I did not know that. Also AvP2 PWNS!

 

Well, if you take in the fact that the only thing that uncloaks itself was to shoot, and that one shot could kill someone in a single hit, and even if it didn't you could always spam fire them again, then yes, they can one hit someone while you are basically cloaked.

 

Again I want to press on the fact that in a game where you lose items, there shouldn't be any single way to 1HKO someone PERIOD. I don't care if you need to have 99 herblore, 99 magic, 99 strength, 99 prayer, 99 sailing and 99 smithing for the ability to. Yes you have worked for it, Yes, it is an awesome feat, No, you shouldn't become death itself where upon touch you kill someone.

 

The problem isn't only herblore though, it is mainly the weapons that deal such gargantuan damage in the first place like the weapons only used for specing: Dragon claws and Dark bow.

The difference, again, between rune armour and herblore is that defence AND the armour directly effects combat, and potions dont.

Also, IF rune was somehow 100M, Herblore would cost like 10B.

 

O and call me Ray. Nice to meet you ;p

 

Essentially, herblore does reflects your combat level.

 

If you have a high herblore level, you are generally going to be a higher combat.

If you have a low herblore level, chances are you are a lower combat.

 

Sorry stopped reading there.

I am happy they did that. Makes things a bit more even.

:wall: UUUGGGHHH This was one of the ONLY things that would cut down the ammount of 76k'ers around. There is no way a 76k'er with no armour would be able to withstand the 90's of an AGS and the 100's of a Dark Bow....

 

Nice one Jagex...