3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion

[Star_Fox]

I feel stupid selling my santa's for 30.5m now. Well yeah, made a nice 4m profit each on them.

 

They went up 1.5m by the way. Couldn't help thinking about how Chessy just "made" 1.5B in one GE update.

 

 

How did she?

Has 1k santas :unsure:

 

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

 

anyways, shes worked hard and deserved her wealth fair and square...but i can also see that it spoiled her intensively.

What's the price on mint cakes? You can get them for free by giving an npc scrambled toad legs. I'm just wondering why are they even at such a high price =/

 

mint cakes are rare because of the low chance of getting one from a reward at the minigame and the scarcity yields the demand. the highest amount i've seen was 168 from one player. anyways, mint cakes are probably one of the most stable risings so it wouldn't be dropping in street for awhile.

[Eyebeam]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

I beg to differ. She has every right to buy what she wants. Additionally, what were people, who are complaining right now, doing when they had the chance to buy a Santa hat? When they had a chance to get one, they didn't. It's their fault.

 

And 1k isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is a complete control. She doesn't have that power. Sure, 1k santas is a lot, but it isn't the whole market.

[viralaether]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

I beg to differ. She has every right to buy what she wants. Additionally, what were people, who are complaining right now, doing when they had the chance to buy a Santa hat? When they had a chance to get one, they didn't. It's their fault.

 

And 1k isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is a complete control. She doesn't have that power. Sure, 1k santas is a lot, but it isn't the whole market.

 

well jagex has no right to ban chessy or any merchers.......

 

but they should anyway :twss:

[i_D_r]

I sometimes jump the bandwagon for merched items but i'm stayin clear of mint cakes. Sure, they may rise to 1 million or more (I don't know how rare they are tbh). But their utility is rather limited, and it's going to take months for them to rise. I'd rather get my junk from more lucrative trades.

[Star_Fox]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

I beg to differ. She has every right to buy what she wants. Additionally, what were people, who are complaining right now, doing when they had the chance to buy a Santa hat? When they had a chance to get one, they didn't. It's their fault.

 

And 1k isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is a complete control. She doesn't have that power. Sure, 1k santas is a lot, but it isn't the whole market.

 

i know that. but 1k santa is definitely enough to take a significant control of the market. where would santas be at if chessy decided to dump all of her santas at midnight? see.

 

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

I beg to differ. She has every right to buy what she wants. Additionally, what were people, who are complaining right now, doing when they had the chance to buy a Santa hat? When they had a chance to get one, they didn't. It's their fault.

 

And 1k isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is a complete control. She doesn't have that power. Sure, 1k santas is a lot, but it isn't the whole market.

 

well jagex has no right to ban chessy or any merchers.......

 

but they should anyway :twss:

 

they have every ample right to ban/lock or do w/e to your account. its their property and doesn't have to wait for an excuse to take action.

 

I sometimes jump the bandwagon for merched items but i'm stayin clear of mint cakes. Sure, they may rise to 1 million or more (I don't know how rare they are tbh). But their utility is rather limited, and it's going to take months for them to rise. I'd rather get my junk from more lucrative trades.

 

actually, the longer it takes for the item to rise, the more demand is pressured because it maintains its buyout value which is a positive factor of any rising items without the consideration of phats.

 

and theres no way cakes can go up that high. if the price reaches around 100-200k. done. who in the right mind would want to pay 1m for them? cmon.

 

sorry i got carried away with quotes.

[Squisher_33]

chessy doesnt deserve a ban or empty bank, shes just a genious however she does need to be stopped from further price maniplulation as with other clans

 

price manip = bad, makes some items so hectinc that they are impossible to buy wen needed or buying them re[bleep]s in you loosing tons of money over the next few days, the only way you can feel safe about making transactions in the ge is if you A.) know the market of many many things, B.) get lucky and buy it when chessy buys hers(day before she sicks her army of mindless zombies on that item), whole base behind this is what your truely willing to pay for an item, ultimately if you want a fire cape you WILL pay 15k for those prayer pots even tho they shuld be 10k, its simple need that ruins you for money, not in huge chunks but over time adds up

 

merhcnating = good, ud be surprised the good it actualy does but speeding up players days by housrs, for example, would you like to wait 2 hours for that zammy spear while your clan leavs to corp wihtout you? or pay an extra 80k to get it now, the latter of course while i just made 160k due to the 80k on the other end, just reverse where someone needs cash and not a z spear

[bedman]

chessy doesnt deserve a ban or empty bank, shes just a genious however she does need to be stopped from further price maniplulation as with other clans

 

price manip = bad, makes some items so hectinc that they are impossible to buy wen needed or buying them re[bleep]s in you loosing tons of money over the next few days, the only way you can feel safe about making transactions in the ge is if you A.) know the market of many many things, B.) get lucky and buy it when chessy buys hers(day before she sicks her army of mindless zombies on that item), whole base behind this is what your truely willing to pay for an item, ultimately if you want a fire cape you WILL pay 15k for those prayer pots even tho they shuld be 10k, its simple need that ruins you for money, not in huge chunks but over time adds up

 

merhcnating = good, ud be surprised the good it actualy does but speeding up players days by housrs, for example, would you like to wait 2 hours for that zammy spear while your clan leavs to corp wihtout you? or pay an extra 80k to get it now, the latter of course while i just made 160k due to the 80k on the other end, just reverse where someone needs cash and not a z spear

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but even solo merching is now bad for everyone but the solo mercher. Back in the days, before the GE, merchers charged extra money because they did the effort to gather the items first, and then sell them to someone who needs them en masse and cant be bothered to spend hours getting them.

Now, there is the GE, and merchers provide no service whatsoever. Some solo merchers are flipping Z spears. Well, expect to pay 200k under max, in stead of 100k above mid. They just stretch the the price range between getting an item instantly, and selling one instantly.

 

To fit it into your example. You bought a zammy spear for 80k under med for merching purposes. Well, this guy who needs the zammy spear for corp could have gotten it 160k cheaper if you weren't merching it, since he could have bought the one you just bought. Where the hell are you saving him hours? You just ripped him off for 160K gp.

 

And on the Chessy matter. I have mixed feeling here. One part says: she made the money, just like you, so why can't she buy what she wants. The other part says she's a price manipulator and is pulling in probably over 100m a day (this is a very very conservative guess). Imagine she buy's 3 santa's with this profit every day. That means in one year she will have bought 10K santa's. Now, if 1k wasn't already a monopoly, 10k surely is.

EDIT: waah, I'm an idiot, it comes down to another 1K santa's, not 10K. Still, that's the double of what she has now, and she makes probably a lot more than 100m a day.

[cookiestealer222]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

 

We should redistribute all wealth in this game...starting with your bank

[timmmmm83]

chessy doesnt deserve a ban or empty bank, shes just a genious however she does need to be stopped from further price maniplulation as with other clans

 

price manip = bad, makes some items so hectinc that they are impossible to buy wen needed or buying them re[bleep]s in you loosing tons of money over the next few days, the only way you can feel safe about making transactions in the ge is if you A.) know the market of many many things, B.) get lucky and buy it when chessy buys hers(day before she sicks her army of mindless zombies on that item), whole base behind this is what your truely willing to pay for an item, ultimately if you want a fire cape you WILL pay 15k for those prayer pots even tho they shuld be 10k, its simple need that ruins you for money, not in huge chunks but over time adds up

 

merhcnating = good, ud be surprised the good it actualy does but speeding up players days by housrs, for example, would you like to wait 2 hours for that zammy spear while your clan leavs to corp wihtout you? or pay an extra 80k to get it now, the latter of course while i just made 160k due to the 80k on the other end, just reverse where someone needs cash and not a z spear

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but even solo merching is now bad for everyone but the solo mercher. Back in the days, before the GE, merchers charged extra money because they did the effort to gather the items first, and then sell them to someone who needs them en masse and cant be bothered to spend hours getting them.

Now, there is the GE, and merchers provide no service whatsoever. Some solo merchers are flipping Z spears. Well, expect to pay 200k under max, in stead of 100k above mid. They just stretch the the price range between getting an item instantly, and selling one instantly.

 

To fit it into your example. You bought a zammy spear for 80k under med for merching purposes. Well, this guy who needs the zammy spear for corp could have gotten it 160k cheaper if you weren't merching it, since he could have bought the one you just bought. Where the hell are you saving him hours? You just ripped him off for 160K gp.

 

And on the Chessy matter. I have mixed feeling here. One part says: she made the money, just like you, so why can't she buy what she wants. The other part says she's a price manipulator and is pulling in probably over 100m a day (this is a very very conservative guess). Imagine she buy's 3 santa's with this profit every day. That means in one year she will have bought 10K santa's. Now, if 1k wasn't already a monopoly, 10k surely is.

EDIT: waah, I'm an idiot, it comes down to another 1K santa's, not 10K. Still, that's the double of what she has now, and she makes probably a lot more than 100m a day.

 

It is true what you say about solo merchers increasing the price of items.

 

But:

a ) it also increases the price of drops (if people are solo-merching zamorak spears in your example, the people at godwars will get more cash for the item they just got as drop)

b ) solo-merching doesn't make stuff unbuyable in ge, only makes it harder to buy at a lower price. Same thing goes for unsellable items, not gonna happen with solo-merching.

c ) if the person is patient, he will get his zamorak spear for 80k under med, just like the solo mercher gets it 80k under med (also from your example)

 

To sum it up: in my humble opinion solo-merchers don't mess up our economy, group merching does. Only point a) is true for group merching.

[bedman]

1) Solo merchers dont increase the price of items normally, they increase the price RANGE people have to pay to either sell an item instantly, or buy an item instantly. So the Godwar guy will get exactly the same amount.

2) Indeed, it doesn't create unbuyables. It just makes stuff harder to buy at a lower price, and harder to sell at a higher price. This is what I mean with the fact that a solo mercher is always "stealing" his money from someone else, be it the guy that wants his guthan spear from barrows to sell instantly, or the guy that wants to buy this zamorakian spear for corp instantly. They have to pay a higher price or settle for a lower price (in case of selling), because solo merchers are merching these items.

3) True

 

Indeed, solo merchers don't mess up the economy. I just wanted to point out that the days they provided a service are long gone. By the way, I solo merch.

[Our_Moon]

Why have many pieces of 3rd Age started to crash, and yet Vambs, Coifs, Ammies, and Melee Legs are unbuyable?

[salamander]

Any predictions on what santas will crash to roughly?

[Star_Fox]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

 

We should redistribute all wealth in this game...starting with your bank

 

LOL

 

@the_platypus: legs are buyable if you consider them with junk. coif and vambs are completely bought out since the low price makes it easy to hoard them in bulk.

[Squisher_33]

chessy doesnt deserve a ban or empty bank, shes just a genious however she does need to be stopped from further price maniplulation as with other clans

 

price manip = bad, makes some items so hectinc that they are impossible to buy wen needed or buying them re[bleep]s in you loosing tons of money over the next few days, the only way you can feel safe about making transactions in the ge is if you A.) know the market of many many things, B.) get lucky and buy it when chessy buys hers(day before she sicks her army of mindless zombies on that item), whole base behind this is what your truely willing to pay for an item, ultimately if you want a fire cape you WILL pay 15k for those prayer pots even tho they shuld be 10k, its simple need that ruins you for money, not in huge chunks but over time adds up

 

merhcnating = good, ud be surprised the good it actualy does but speeding up players days by housrs, for example, would you like to wait 2 hours for that zammy spear while your clan leavs to corp wihtout you? or pay an extra 80k to get it now, the latter of course while i just made 160k due to the 80k on the other end, just reverse where someone needs cash and not a z spear

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but even solo merching is now bad for everyone but the solo mercher. Back in the days, before the GE, merchers charged extra money because they did the effort to gather the items first, and then sell them to someone who needs them en masse and cant be bothered to spend hours getting them.

Now, there is the GE, and merchers provide no service whatsoever. Some solo merchers are flipping Z spears. Well, expect to pay 200k under max, in stead of 100k above mid. They just stretch the the price range between getting an item instantly, and selling one instantly.

 

To fit it into your example. You bought a zammy spear for 80k under med for merching purposes. Well, this guy who needs the zammy spear for corp could have gotten it 160k cheaper if you weren't merching it, since he could have bought the one you just bought. Where the hell are you saving him hours? You just ripped him off for 160K gp.

 

And on the Chessy matter. I have mixed feeling here. One part says: she made the money, just like you, so why can't she buy what she wants. The other part says she's a price manipulator and is pulling in probably over 100m a day (this is a very very conservative guess). Imagine she buy's 3 santa's with this profit every day. That means in one year she will have bought 10K santa's. Now, if 1k wasn't already a monopoly, 10k surely is.

EDIT: waah, I'm an idiot, it comes down to another 1K santa's, not 10K. Still, that's the double of what she has now, and she makes probably a lot more than 100m a day.

 

actualy your quite wrong, perhaps you answered beofre thinking more idk

 

since buying a spear 80k under mid takes say, 4 hours, the guy buying could have got it 160k cheaper if he also waited f 4 huors but most guys would pass up 4 hours for an extra 160k, its a waste if ur in a hurry

 

see the guy selling 80k under and tehy guy buying for corp are probably not going to buy and sell at the exact same time, and even so its impossible due to older offers beating the guy to the spear

 

so sicne buying and selling takes place at diff times the merchanters bridge the gap for profit

[Gribbzldinho]

chessy doesnt deserve a ban or empty bank, shes just a genious however she does need to be stopped from further price maniplulation as with other clans

 

Chessy is suddenly now a genius because she spends the best part of 5-10 minutes a day at the grand exchange? :lol:

 

Dedicated? Yes. Genius? Certainly not.

[bedman]

It's taking 4 hours to buy a spear under med because of the solo merchers... They are all trying to buy them at that price so you have to wait in the line. The nice thing about the Grand Exchange is that you dont need to buy sell at the same time, I thought you understood that. The older offers beating the guy to the spear are other solo merchers, like I said. There are enough items sold and bought all the time that you can buy/sell something instantly at a certain price. Solo merchers dont change this equilibrum, because they buy and sell. All they do is widen the gap. I think I'm just not explaining it well enough, but trust me, NOBODY but the solo merchers is gaining anything from the solo merchers activity. Nobody.

[timmmmm83]

It's taking 4 hours to buy a spear under med because of the solo merchers... They are all trying to buy them at that price so you have to wait in the line. The nice thing about the Grand Exchange is that you dont need to buy sell at the same time, I thought you understood that. The older offers beating the guy to the spear are other solo merchers, like I said. There are enough items sold and bought all the time that you can buy/sell something instantly at a certain price. Solo merchers dont change this equilibrum, because they buy and sell. All they do is widen the gap. I think I'm just not explaining it well enough, but trust me, NOBODY but the solo merchers is gaining anything from the solo merchers activity. Nobody.

 

Hmmm, I always thought people in the game profited from (solo)merchanters too as they drive up the prices.

 

For example: the 'saradomin godsword'. Assume that 100 people solo merchant these, 10 per day. (which I think is a low estimate)

Take 75m as the price which resembles supply = demand without solo merchers. These 100 people take 1k (=100 x 10) saradomin godswords off the market because they are constantly buying and reselling them.

Supply < demand -> price rises to a new point where supply = demand. The new price will be higher then the original one (>75m) and the sole cause in this are solo merchers.

 

I know people aren't stupid and they will look for alternatives, but these alternatives are being solo merched too.

Also some folks won't be able to buy the saradomin godsword at a higher price than the original one, so decreasing the demand side a bit. The 1k godswords taken out of the market by solo merchers make up for this loss by far imo.

 

I only studied a beginners course of economics, if you find any mistakes please correct... :)

[wioneo]

 

For example: the 'saradomin godsword'. Assume that 100 people solo merchant these, 10 per day. (which I think is a low estimate)

Take 75m as the price which resembles supply = demand without solo merchers. These 100 people take 1k (=100 x 10) saradomin godswords off the market because they are constantly buying and reselling them.

Supply < demand -> price rises to a new point where supply = demand. The new price will be higher then the original one (>75m) and the sole cause in this are solo merchers.

 

 

Fliping does not affect supply or demand, because when the flipper buys the item, they increase the demand. However, when they sell the item, they increase the supply by exactly the same trivial amount cancelling out the first transaction nearly completely. The only thing that they affect is the number of people who get a good deal on whatever item the flippers are flipping.

[death666bl00ms]

i really hate to sound like a snob but chessy needs to be banned or the items have to be released from her bank...sure, its unfair but shes practicing monopoly when its completely not fair for us that we can't buy any of the items she wants. i don't see why you have to get a hold of 500 partyhats and 1k santas when they're are hard working players trying to buy ONE.

I beg to differ. She has every right to buy what she wants. Additionally, what were people, who are complaining right now, doing when they had the chance to buy a Santa hat? When they had a chance to get one, they didn't. It's their fault.

 

And 1k isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is a complete control. She doesn't have that power. Sure, 1k santas is a lot, but it isn't the whole market.

 

 

Might want to look into what a monopoly is a bit more bud....

[Zaps]

To whoever said that Chessy made her money just like us, I'm pretty sure that's false.

 

I do believe she had Macro accounts working for her.

[Star_Fox]

To whoever said that Chessy made her money just like us, I'm pretty sure that's false.

 

I do believe she had Macro accounts working for her.

 

 

care to cite? :huh:

[BiJay]

To whoever said that Chessy made her money just like us, I'm pretty sure that's false.

 

I do believe she had Macro accounts working for her.

Yeah, it's true. She had several macro accounts working for her before the trade limit. I think it's somewhere written in this thread or at least somewhere in these forums.

[bedman]

 

For example: the 'saradomin godsword'. Assume that 100 people solo merchant these, 10 per day. (which I think is a low estimate)

Take 75m as the price which resembles supply = demand without solo merchers. These 100 people take 1k (=100 x 10) saradomin godswords off the market because they are constantly buying and reselling them.

Supply < demand -> price rises to a new point where supply = demand. The new price will be higher then the original one (>75m) and the sole cause in this are solo merchers.

 

 

Fliping does not affect supply or demand, because when the flipper buys the item, they increase the demand. However, when they sell the item, they increase the supply by exactly the same trivial amount cancelling out the first transaction nearly completely. The only thing that they affect is the number of people who get a good deal on whatever item the flippers are flipping.

Finally someone who gets it :-)

 

Just to add something. Say, the price is 75m and in equilibrum, then solo merchers will buy for 74 and sell for 76, keeping the equilibrum.

[timmmmm83]

 

For example: the 'saradomin godsword'. Assume that 100 people solo merchant these, 10 per day. (which I think is a low estimate)

Take 75m as the price which resembles supply = demand without solo merchers. These 100 people take 1k (=100 x 10) saradomin godswords off the market because they are constantly buying and reselling them.

Supply < demand -> price rises to a new point where supply = demand. The new price will be higher then the original one (>75m) and the sole cause in this are solo merchers.

 

 

Fliping does not affect supply or demand, because when the flipper buys the item, they increase the demand. However, when they sell the item, they increase the supply by exactly the same trivial amount cancelling out the first transaction nearly completely. The only thing that they affect is the number of people who get a good deal on whatever item the flippers are flipping.

Finally someone who gets it :-)

 

Just to add something. Say, the price is 75m and in equilibrum, then solo merchers will buy for 74 and sell for 76, keeping the equilibrum.

 

hmmm, okay, but:

 

From 12am-12pm a flipper is buying 10 sgs, he sells from 12pm-12am.

From 12pm-12am a flipper is buying 10 sgs, he sells from 12am-12pm.

(most flippers buy 5x4h and sell 1x4h, under ideal circumstances, so the supply taken away is even bigger)

 

So from 12am-12am 10 sgs are taken out of the market?

 

You're imo correct that flippers don't affect the market fully, but they do increase demand in this way I think. Thus driving the price higher.

[Silver_Corner]

 

For example: the 'saradomin godsword'. Assume that 100 people solo merchant these, 10 per day. (which I think is a low estimate)

Take 75m as the price which resembles supply = demand without solo merchers. These 100 people take 1k (=100 x 10) saradomin godswords off the market because they are constantly buying and reselling them.

Supply < demand -> price rises to a new point where supply = demand. The new price will be higher then the original one (>75m) and the sole cause in this are solo merchers.

 

 

Fliping does not affect supply or demand, because when the flipper buys the item, they increase the demand. However, when they sell the item, they increase the supply by exactly the same trivial amount cancelling out the first transaction nearly completely. The only thing that they affect is the number of people who get a good deal on whatever item the flippers are flipping.

Finally someone who gets it :-)

 

Just to add something. Say, the price is 75m and in equilibrum, then solo merchers will buy for 74 and sell for 76, keeping the equilibrum.

 

hmmm, okay, but:

 

From 12am-12pm a flipper is buying 10 sgs, he sells from 12pm-12am.

From 12pm-12am a flipper is buying 10 sgs, he sells from 12am-12pm.

(most flippers buy 5x4h and sell 1x4h, under ideal circumstances, so the supply taken away is even bigger)

 

So from 12am-12am 10 sgs are taken out of the market?

 

You're imo correct that flippers don't affect the market fully, but they do increase demand in this way I think. Thus driving the price higher.

 

Also keep in mind, most flippers [that I know] buy their items around mid/just under mid, while people buying their items from flippers buy at maximum or near max. That would mean the equilibrium does not cancel out, as the items are being bought around middle and sold for around max. This does raise the price, however not to a point where it is hurting the economy at all.

 

Unlike merchanting clans, flippers tend to skip around a large number of items and don't just stick with one item like the clans do. Because of that, over time the price increases they do make are usually reset to their "normal" values by natural flows in the market.