3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion

[meili]

*yawn* Well I decided to not worry about it and just keep all my rares. I just don't have enough junk and I really don't understand the market now. ;)

[swampjedi]

I'm not upset that I got out of it. I have enough cash to buy the rest of my 99s - and that's basically all I need.

[meili]

I don't know why Jagex hasn't banned that 2lum person if the scamming has been that blatant. These merchant clans should be investigated, it really seems as though a lot are run by scammers.

[Carl]

Reading through the past few pages of this thread shows many faults in peoples ideas on what they have posted here. There's people trying to justify flipping, investing and..well...not so much manipulation.

 

There's one key thing you're all leaving out in these "examples", and is that you, alone, aren't the only person doing it. "I flip this, I'm not affecting anyone really". You flip that, yes, but so do 100 others. And what does this mean? That it's a group effort. Yes.

 

You, alone aren't doing much. It's when you, and the 100 others are flipping an item together that's doing something.

Example: You're flipping...Dharoks' great axes. You've bought 10, you're now on limit. There's still plenty more people putting their axes in the Grand Exchange to sell, while you can't buy them, others are. Many, many others are doing just what you are to profit. Thus meaning, the price of that great axe generally won't fall. You've only helped a small bit, but the others with you have changed it all. Then, when it comes to you needing to sell these items you'll sell (As one user said), what, 1 per 4 hours? (I think that's what I read..). So you get the most possible out of it. This can only lead to one thing - the price rising!

 

Same with investors, most claim that because they're not working in a group they're not causing any effect. When that is indeed what they are doing, they're working as one big "anonymous machine"! Buy X item at max price, sell in a few days when it's risen. You, and...thousands of other investors are doing just that and as a group are most likely having a larger effect on the item that you're investing in - than these manipulators who knowlingly buyout items for this effect - have. You're selling at a fixed price that you have. Manipulation clans have a "general" price, and people will generally make sure they dump before that price. Whereas you'll keep pushing it to the max.

 

I can't really expand on it anymore, as I've not got the time. But above is what people really are missing out in their examples.

[Punitive_D]

Reading through the past few pages of this thread shows many faults in peoples ideas on what they have posted here. There's people trying to justify flipping, investing and..well...not so much manipulation.

 

There's one key thing you're all leaving out in these "examples", and is that you, alone, aren't the only person doing it. "I flip this, I'm not affecting anyone really". You flip that, yes, but so do 100 others. And what does this mean? That it's a group effort. Yes.

 

You, alone aren't doing much. It's when you, and the 100 others are flipping an item together that's doing something.

Example: You're flipping...Dharoks' great axes. You've bought 10, you're now on limit. There's still plenty more people putting their axes in the Grand Exchange to sell, while you can't buy them, others are. Many, many others are doing just what you are to profit. Thus meaning, the price of that great axe generally won't fall. You've only helped a small bit, but the others with you have changed it all. Then, when it comes to you needing to sell these items you'll sell (As one user said), what, 1 per 4 hours? (I think that's what I read..). So you get the most possible out of it. This can only lead to one thing - the price rising!

 

Same with investors, most claim that because they're not working in a group they're not causing any effect. When that is indeed what they are doing, they're working as one big "anonymous machine"! Buy X item at max price, sell in a few days when it's risen. You, and...thousands of other investors are doing just that and as a group are most likely having a larger effect on the item that you're investing in - than these manipulators who knowlingly buyout items for this effect - have. You're selling at a fixed price that you have. Manipulation clans have a "general" price, and people will generally make sure they dump before that price. Whereas you'll keep pushing it to the max.

 

I can't really expand on it anymore, as I've not got the time. But above is what people really are missing out in their examples.

 

Flipping is done over mid and under mid. It just depends on where the market is at the moment. So sometimes flipping pushes the price up a little, and sometimes it pushes it down a little. Sometimes it's doesn't push the price at all if you buy under mid and sell over mid. In any event, demand drives the price. This is the difference between flipping and price manipulation. In the aggregate, flipping doesn't artificially affect prices. That's because you make money on the flip without regard to price change. In fact, sometimes you have to be careful NOT to affect the price. For example, if I'm buying under mid and selling at mid (which I do a lot), I can end up driving the price down and depreciating my own stock. (No big deal since I have only a few, and I generally still can sell at or over where I bought.) Truth is, flippers stabilize prices. If you don't know what you're talking about, please learn something before posting.

[stonewall337]

2lum is mod MMG's personal account, that is why it hasn't been banned yet.

 

Also, ranger boots are lost almost upon every death, they have a very low protection value. So if people can't loot their grave, they lose them.

[Saru Inc]

This market is so [bleep]ing confusing.

[Carl]

Reading through the past few pages of this thread shows many faults in peoples ideas on what they have posted here. There's people trying to justify flipping, investing and..well...not so much manipulation.

 

There's one key thing you're all leaving out in these "examples", and is that you, alone, aren't the only person doing it. "I flip this, I'm not affecting anyone really". You flip that, yes, but so do 100 others. And what does this mean? That it's a group effort. Yes.

 

You, alone aren't doing much. It's when you, and the 100 others are flipping an item together that's doing something.

Example: You're flipping...Dharoks' great axes. You've bought 10, you're now on limit. There's still plenty more people putting their axes in the Grand Exchange to sell, while you can't buy them, others are. Many, many others are doing just what you are to profit. Thus meaning, the price of that great axe generally won't fall. You've only helped a small bit, but the others with you have changed it all. Then, when it comes to you needing to sell these items you'll sell (As one user said), what, 1 per 4 hours? (I think that's what I read..). So you get the most possible out of it. This can only lead to one thing - the price rising!

 

Same with investors, most claim that because they're not working in a group they're not causing any effect. When that is indeed what they are doing, they're working as one big "anonymous machine"! Buy X item at max price, sell in a few days when it's risen. You, and...thousands of other investors are doing just that and as a group are most likely having a larger effect on the item that you're investing in - than these manipulators who knowlingly buyout items for this effect - have. You're selling at a fixed price that you have. Manipulation clans have a "general" price, and people will generally make sure they dump before that price. Whereas you'll keep pushing it to the max.

 

I can't really expand on it anymore, as I've not got the time. But above is what people really are missing out in their examples.

 

Flipping is done over mid and under mid. It just depends on where the market is at the moment. So sometimes flipping pushes the price up a little, and sometimes it pushes it down a little. Sometimes it's doesn't push the price at all if you buy under mid and sell over mid. In any event, demand drives the price. This is the difference between flipping and price manipulation. In the aggregate, flipping doesn't artificially affect prices. That's because you make money on the flip without regard to price change. In fact, sometimes you have to be careful NOT to affect the price. For example, if I'm buying under mid and selling at mid (which I do a lot), I can end up driving the price down and depreciating my own stock. (No big deal since I have only a few, and I generally still can sell at or over where I bought.) Truth is, flippers stabilize prices. If you don't know what you're talking about, please learn something before posting.

 

What are you flipping, lobsters? Oh please. Any item that one flips that they have high profits in mind (Which is pretty much everyone, I'm sure) Will need more than just a few gp profit per item. Which will generally result in buying mid price, or just under and selling over. Selling over the medium price pushes things up... The more an item goes up, the greater the profit margin. :thumbup: And again, as I said in my first post. Most users posting here are speaking as if they're the only one flipping that one item.

[bedman]

I have flipped a few 3a hats the last days for instance. I buy these for a little above min, and sell for a little under med. How am I (together with other people doing the same) driving the price up?

[Danqazmlp]

Would that not drive the price down, still having an effect.

[BiJay]

What are you flipping, lobsters? Oh please. Any item that one flips that they have high profits in mind (Which is pretty much everyone, I'm sure) Will need more than just a few gp profit per item. Which will generally result in buying mid price, or just under and selling over. Selling over the medium price pushes things up... The more an item goes up, the greater the profit margin. :thumbup: And again, as I said in my first post. Most users posting here are speaking as if they're the only one flipping that one item.

He was correct with his statement. Good flippers predict the price of the item it gets to tomorrow and try to buy the item a certain ammount under that price and try to sell it the same ammount above this price or wait till the update comes. If they won't buy the item someone else will get a good deal - maybe another merchanter or some random dude who really needs the item (or wants to sell it). But the fact is there are thousands of people who are willing to sell their item at that price you want to buy it and another thousands of people who are willing to pay the price you've put your sell offer in. So without them the whole process won't work and it won't make a big difference if you aren't involved in this process. Maybe the people will smile when they get a few bucks more as they were expecting but they won't blame anyone if they won't. They also could wait to get a good deal.

 

This typical scenario is independant on the ammount of people merchanting the item. You could also think of this: If a merchanter leaves an item the price you could buy the item may be lower and the sell price could be higher. So the profit of this item rises for the other merchanters. This could lead to someone jumping on the train because the profit seems good to him so in the end the ammount of merchanters could stabalize.

 

Merchanters do exist in the real world, too. And they are an important part of the economy as they (should) act independantly and with their competition they form a stable price. The same is true for the rs market (if you extend the word stable a little bit) but anyone has more impact on the price. If there won't be any merchanters the price would go up and down like a yo-yo and the normal rs player who would look at the price graph would say: "Hey why I should buy it on that high price if it goes down the next day?" And he then buys it when it's lower and just became a small type of a merchanter. He might even buy more of that item when it's low and sell it then when it gets higher and become a real merchanter.

 

So in the end I wanted to say an economy without merchanters can't really exist as there always will be some "smart" people who will try to get a better deal.

 

PS: I hope my post is understandable as I have problems to say something related to that topic in english. :D

[The_Gabe]

[britonlongbow]

wow turned 1 red h'ween mask into 7 :/

Nice p-hat too

[The_Gabe]

wow turned 1 red h'ween mask into 7 :/

Nice p-hat too

 

Yeah I lost 20m on the red mask merch :thumbdown:

[Danqazmlp]

Are Yellows readily available on the G.E now then?

[bedman]

I think he got lucky, that's why he's posting.

[Awkward Talking Fish]

Could anyone tell me the street price all up of these items:

1 Easter egg

1 Pumpkin

1 Disk of Returning

1 Half full wine jug

 

 

I got them all at min GE price last year and I'm just wondering the street price of them all up. :P

[Eyebeam]

Could anyone tell me the street price all up of these items:

1 Easter egg

1 Pumpkin

1 Disk of Returning

1 Half full wine jug

 

 

I got them all at min GE price last year and I'm just wondering the street price of them all up. :P

AMG YOU GOT HALF WINE@@@ FFS.

Um,

Easters: 200mish

Pumpkin:500-600m

Disk:400mish

Halfwine: 4bill? But, it's definitely worth more than a blue for sure.

[Tres]

I still dont understand this street price thing...i would definately sell pumpkin for 100m cash if it was possible to trade.

 

But if ppl says they buy pumpkin for 100mill and you trade...you give pumpkin + 65mill in items for their 100m cash thats not like im earming +100mill for it.

 

someone offered me 1.3bill in cash for cracker...i would had sold it right away but problem is that i cannot trade it...and basically all i got is only rare items and some basic stuff worth maybe 1-2mill

[Talset65]

I still dont understand this street price thing...i would definately sell pumpkin for 100m cash if it was possible to trade.

 

But if ppl says they buy pumpkin for 100mill and you trade...you give pumpkin + 65mill in items for their 100m cash thats not like im earming +100mill for it.

 

someone offered me 1.3bill in cash for cracker...i would had sold it right away but problem is that i cannot trade it...and basically all i got is only rare items and some basic stuff worth maybe 1-2mill

 

Edit nvm :\

[Punitive_D]

I still dont understand this street price thing...i would definately sell pumpkin for 100m cash if it was possible to trade.

 

But if ppl says they buy pumpkin for 100mill and you trade...you give pumpkin + 65mill in items for their 100m cash thats not like im earming +100mill for it.

 

someone offered me 1.3bill in cash for cracker...i would had sold it right away but problem is that i cannot trade it...and basically all i got is only rare items and some basic stuff worth maybe 1-2mill

 

You can calculate the value of a bought out item. Value = Street price - cost of junk. Cost of junk generally can be figured as a percentage. For example, the shop price of water-filled vials is 10. The GE price is 63. So you can value the junk you need to complete a trade by dividing by 6.3. So if the street price of the pumpkin really is 100M, then the true value is 100M less the value of the junk necessary to complete the trade. Since the GE price of a pumpkin is 35.8M, it will take 64.2M junk to complete the trade. It will cost roughly 10M to get that much junk (a little more actually). So the true value of a pumpkin is a little less than 90M (the 100M cash you can get for the pumpkin less the 10M that you would need to spend on junk to complete the trade).

[meili]

I still dont understand this street price thing...i would definately sell pumpkin for 100m cash if it was possible to trade.

 

But if ppl says they buy pumpkin for 100mill and you trade...you give pumpkin + 65mill in items for their 100m cash thats not like im earming +100mill for it.

 

someone offered me 1.3bill in cash for cracker...i would had sold it right away but problem is that i cannot trade it...and basically all i got is only rare items and some basic stuff worth maybe 1-2mill

 

Yes, same here. Jagex needs to come up with a solution for people who just want to trade :ohnoes: painlessly without needing to bother with 65 m worth of junk... :twisted: :twisted:

 

An auction, maybe.

[ilovecuttingyews]

I still dont understand this street price thing...i would definately sell pumpkin for 100m cash if it was possible to trade.

But if ppl says they buy pumpkin for 100mill and you trade...you give pumpkin + 65mill in items for their 100m cash thats not like im earming +100mill for it.

someone offered me 1.3bill in cash for cracker...i would had sold it right away but problem is that i cannot trade it...and basically all i got is only rare items and some basic stuff worth maybe 1-2mill

Yes, same here. Jagex needs to come up with a solution for people who just want to trade :ohnoes: painlessly without needing to bother with 65 m worth of junk... :twisted: :twisted:

An auction, maybe.

As much as we would all love a way to trade 'freely' we all know that with free trade come RWT. If they were to make an auction type thing then all RWTers have to do is bid super high on one item then sell that item back to the owner for much less. Then auction it again and repeat.

A sells phat to B for 200M

B sells phat to A for 500M

Viola! 300M transfered!

[kingbrooks]

Ah but they wouldn't because B would be outbidded by people offering larger amounts.

 

 

Also people trying to buy rwt money often don't have many expensive items and even Jagex are sensible enough to set a cap on the items...say 300% of their ge value idk.

[runite]

This seems to be also the GE/economy/whatever-discussion thread, so I'll post here. I was just thinking about the inflation earlier today and came up with an (stupid?) idea to slow it down. Couldn't some kind of taxing system be added to GE, to drain money from rs? Meaning for each item you buy, you pay a few % extra as "taxes", and that amount is drained from the system? If no, why not? I'm no economy geek and just curious, so don't flame me for this. ;)