25-Mar-2013 - Wilderness Warbands

[Ts_Stormrage]

Absolutely and COMPLETELY wrong, Urza285...

 

If gear-loss in The Wilderness is something that needed to go, then Jagex would've at least kept the keep-three-items-when-not-skulled thing going...

 

 

ALL of the EoC sweats, bleeds and oozes one main message, and it is one that the simpler player has escaped from to 07 servers...

And that message is this:

 

Think not once, not twice, but THRICE about what you are going to wear in combat before setting off to plunge yourself into the fray... There is no best set-up anymore, only a lot of really good ones...

 

Is this another ploy to get people into clans for whenever multi combat happens? Maybe. I don't see it as a bad thing, because it would :eek: *SHOCK* :shock: force people to interact with one another in this game again... It's also what I hinted at in my previous post ^^^^

 

There is a PROPER combat triangle now, so it's impossible to be prepared for ALL situations... The good news is that your opponent has the exact same hindrances... With the next batch of EoC tweaks (levels being more meaningful, so a lvl 200 with a whip is once again significantly better than a lvl 90 with a whip) we'll also see that not just bank and amount of friends matter, but time invested as well...

 

 

If you don't like possibly losing everything you own in The Wilderness, don't take anything, find some friends to protect you, or simply don't go in it at all...

[Urza285]

I'm not wrong you just don't agree with my conceptualizing of player involvement in the wilderness.

 

I feel players should see the wilderness as a risk vs reward environment. I feel the rewards are good, but the potential losses aren't justified by the amount of rewards.

[V O R K]

As much as I love to see new light in the wilderness i'm a bit puzzled by what you're saying now; you want to eliminate the risk part partially but where else in scape do you gain 100k exp at once? The diversity and tactics are "okay", I still think it's all pretty bland and narrow but I don't see why brains over muscle should suddenly exclude gear on killdrops. Why change the core-concept of wilderness whilst the only thing you want to see is more reward?

 

Revenant hunting is possible to do in T60 gear and weapons and you can get items worth millions, you come across the occasional pker but that's the risk you take and it's nothing compared to the chaos druid killers from years back. Heck, they'd pk you for a glory and a few herbs.

 

I still think it's a shame that it all died down but hey live with it and adapt. MB, rr, greater/lesser demons, green drags, it'll never be the same but with updates like these atleast there is progress.

 

I still think bounty hunter should come back atleast it was very clear to people you're a target and you will get hunted. (just like the wilderness...)

[Ammako]

Whiners get punished \:D/

That emoticon after that sentence? Priceless.

[Urza285]

Reread what I posted... I said they should make all armour take durability hits. Something like the bandos chestplate which is currently worth 13.4m might take a durability hit of 1240k (10%) and for PKers should should be a lootable option. Deaths in the non-PK world could give you durability hits according to the bosses strength ranging from 5-20% and cash value to repair would not be dropped. Having worlds specifically for high risk PKing and the traditional lose-everything concept is fine with me for those who actually PK and live and die by that concept when PKing.

 

To put this in perspective a person PKed wearing decent gear... We'll use:

 

Bandos helm: 8.3m (830k)

Bandos chestplate: 13.4m (1340k)

Bandos tassets: 7.5m (750k)

goliath gloves: 9.5k (950) <- Really lame, I know...

steadfast boots: 31.3m (3130k)

Skill cape: 99k (9.9k)

Amulet of fury: 3.7m (370k)

Warrior ring: 925k (92.5k)

Abyssal whip: 93.1k (9.3k)

Elite enhanced excalibur: 200k (20k)

 

Total durability hit in one death: ~6650k

 

As you can see killing someone wearing this setup would yield a pretty nice sum of cash. In the end the player taking the hit would either have to repair his armour when it hits 0% durability or destroy it. The cash would drop on death and the PKer could pick it up which would then be automatically put in their money pouch. The repair option would be done the same way as it is now by paying cost at your home armour stand, bobs axes, etc. The cost reduction of smithing would be fine in my books as well.

[Nobody]

Non-PVPers have not feared the Wilderness for a long time.

 

Welcome back.

[PolarBearBlue]

As much as I love to see new light in the wilderness i'm a bit puzzled by what you're saying now; you want to eliminate the risk part partially but where else in scape do you gain 100k exp at once? The diversity and tactics are "okay", I still think it's all pretty bland and narrow but I don't see why brains over muscle should suddenly exclude gear on killdrops. Why change the core-concept of wilderness whilst the only thing you want to see is more reward?

 

Revenant hunting is possible to do in T60 gear and weapons and you can get items worth millions, you come across the occasional pker but that's the risk you take and it's nothing compared to the chaos druid killers from years back. Heck, they'd pk you for a glory and a few herbs.

 

I still think it's a shame that it all died down but hey live with it and adapt. MB, rr, greater/lesser demons, green drags, it'll never be the same but with updates like these atleast there is progress.

 

I still think bounty hunter should come back atleast it was very clear to people you're a target and you will get hunted. (just like the wilderness...)

 

It is indeed rare to see you post more than 2 sentences at a time...

 

My problem is not how Warbands work, or the risk and reward (part of that is how I value my time). It's shameful it has to lure no PvP players out there but it's not even that which bothers me. Rather it's the people who now engage in these activities, on both sides. The pkers who really give non PvP player a pain don't risk bank. The best they've ever taken into the wild is a Polypore Staff or Hand Cannon. They also don't have numbers. Warband PK is the largest group next to Saintprodigy, but they each only show up to 3 warbands a day. Evey other group is just a team of 4 who come in Batwing. It's funny because when either of the other two big group come to town and bust their face, they come inside of Warband FC and cry that we such and should have helped them. It seems so different from the pking I was told about/remember. Early on, thou I didn't care to engage to much in it, it felt like there was more honor and pride. Maybe I'm misguided but plenty of pkers before left me alone when I asked them to. Of course there was plenty who didn't but at least when I fought back they didn't run from me. They wanted to kill players who seriously wanted to fight. And they were willing to risk for reward. The guys that come out now want the reward but sure as [bleep] won't risk, even in crappy gear.

 

Which burns me about the non PvP players. They don't want to fight back. They want the reward without risk. They come unarmed and expect 100k exp. I've said in recent days if every man was to arm himself ready to fight for what they want they'd be more successful. Plenty times Warband FC has had antipk squads who have done well. Admitting, I started out ready to fight before going unarmed. But I quickly realized thing went much better if I came ready to defend and I have tried to help. And I enjoyed it to an extent. But NO ONE ELSE want to try and would cry when they die. All I see in the chat is

 

"Where is the next band?"

"Tents at w36"

"This should be a safe D&D"

"[cabbage] pkers. Kids in nothing but [cabbage] gear who think they are baws"

"I shouldn't have this much trouble"

"Someone find a new world quick@@@"

 

I know the reward from Warbands are not guarantee for me. But the concept seems to escape most other people's mind. So both parties whine. Only non pkers whine louder because the whiny pker killed them and caused them grief.

 

Right now I'm numb to the death. It doesn't bother me anymore. Because my fear has been replaced with general annoyance with both group of players.

[Fallstar]

People still don't fear going in the wilderness for this. If you die you lose 5 minutes of time. Whoop de whoop.

 

And no one wears equipment because the death penalty is obviously losing all of that equipment. There's no point risking non welfare gear to give you a better chance of surviving when you're only going to lose a few minutes of time anyway. Plus every single pker I've seen so far is in royal or some of the new low level mage gear. They risk a pittance to earn a pittance.

 

You won't see large groups of half decent PK'rs killing people, or mains killing PK'rs, until the people looting tents and the welfare PK'rs start to risk more. And since there is no motivation for those players to risk more, this will just end up as a skilling activity with the minor annoyance of dieing once every couple of days, and isn't really going to revive any real PVP in EoCscape.

[kamil1210]

I have been doing warbands with fc for couple of days. I have died once and lost 25 sharks royal d'hide and rune hathet. And I have over milion xp from this minigame.

With dedicated fc you can train skills while others (me) are finding worlds. Looting 3 camps will take you under 15 minutes. After u got 25 items you change world and you are safe.

 

I think xp is unbalanced (very unblanaced after last changes) and jegex will nerf it in spetmeber.

Edited April 10, 2013 by kamil1210

[strilmus]

oh, so i was right, you can just use friend hopping to slip past the griefers

[Ts_Stormrage]

[hide]

People still don't fear going in the wilderness for this. If you die you lose 5 minutes of time. Whoop de whoop.

 

And no one wears equipment because the death penalty is obviously losing all of that equipment. There's no point risking non welfare gear to give you a better chance of surviving when you're only going to lose a few minutes of time anyway. Plus every single pker I've seen so far is in royal or some of the new low level mage gear. They risk a pittance to earn a pittance.

 

You won't see large groups of half decent PK'rs killing people, or mains killing PK'rs, until the people looting tents and the welfare PK'rs start to risk more. And since there is no motivation for those players to risk more, this will just end up as a skilling activity with the minor annoyance of dieing once every couple of days, and isn't really going to revive any real PVP in EoCscape.

[/hide]

 

If people didn't fear the Wilderness, then there wouldn't be any calls for removing the dangerous parts of it...

 

You have to remember, the person that goes after these Warbands' XP loots is the same type of person who would (back in the day, anyways) use the Abyss to do some Runecrafting... And the ones who would Abyss-pk are the same ones who now go after the ones wearing nothing or just welfare gear while looting these camps...

And sadly, the person complaining that he lost his Glory, is the same person that now complains he didded sum expee-waistun cuz he dun got killed...

 

This isn't economics... Not for that PK-er anyways...

This is the thrill of a kill, and also the thrill of surviving an attack...

 

If there is some numpty willing to kill "innocent" skillers (no such thing as innocence in the Wilderness) for their 4000GP per looted crate (but it's more for the kill than the loot), there will always be some self-righteous person willing to take up that shield and harass the harasser...

 

And even so; for you to fully partake in all possible benefits of the Warcamps, you need more than just luck to not get killed; you're gonna want to help disrupt a beam, and summon in some allies and kill that boss... This requires at least SOME gear and equipment to be brought...

 

It won't completely revive the Wilderness, but grudges run deep... So this is what is known as a good start...

[PolarBearBlue]

[hide]

People still don't fear going in the wilderness for this. If you die you lose 5 minutes of time. Whoop de whoop.

 

And no one wears equipment because the death penalty is obviously losing all of that equipment. There's no point risking non welfare gear to give you a better chance of surviving when you're only going to lose a few minutes of time anyway. Plus every single pker I've seen so far is in royal or some of the new low level mage gear. They risk a pittance to earn a pittance.

 

You won't see large groups of half decent PK'rs killing people, or mains killing PK'rs, until the people looting tents and the welfare PK'rs start to risk more. And since there is no motivation for those players to risk more, this will just end up as a skilling activity with the minor annoyance of dieing once every couple of days, and isn't really going to revive any real PVP in EoCscape.

[/hide]

 

If people didn't fear the Wilderness, then there wouldn't be any calls for removing the dangerous parts of it...

 

You have to remember, the person that goes after these Warbands' XP loots is the same type of person who would (back in the day, anyways) use the Abyss to do some Runecrafting... And the ones who would Abyss-pk are the same ones who now go after the ones wearing nothing or just welfare gear while looting these camps...

And sadly, the person complaining that he lost his Glory, is the same person that now complains he didded sum expee-waistun cuz he dun got killed...

 

This isn't economics... Not for that PK-er anyways...

This is the thrill of a kill, and also the thrill of surviving an attack...

 

If there is some numpty willing to kill "innocent" skillers (no such thing as innocence in the Wilderness) for their 4000GP per looted crate (but it's more for the kill than the loot), there will always be some self-righteous person willing to take up that shield and harass the harasser...

 

And even so; for you to fully partake in all possible benefits of the Warcamps, you need more than just luck to not get killed; you're gonna want to help disrupt a beam, and summon in some allies and kill that boss... This requires at least SOME gear and equipment to be brought...

 

It won't completely revive the Wilderness, but grudges run deep... So this is what is known as a good start...

 

This is where my complaint is in. Over half the players come expecting the camp to be lootable by the time they get there. The other half don't go until it is. Then when someone ruins the beam, they hide behind a tent until all the NPCs are killed. Then they wonder why couldn't get 76 herblore or whatnot. The [cabbage] you mean why does camps take so long to deal with?! Why can't we loot in peace?!

 

You aren't suppose to be able to loot in peace. You are suppose to be on guard. And knowing what it takes for a camp to be successful, you should be willing to help.

 

Even if this is a start, I doubt it would get much better than this. Most the serious pkers were fans of the old combat system, and they went to 07scape. I don't think they'll come back now that they've gotten what they consider the glory of Runescape (not saying it's not, just saying that's what thier beliefs are).

[Alg]

You could also argue that this is really what you should expect when you aim wilderness updates at players that don't like the wilderness. The phrase "oil and water" comes to mind.

[PolarBearBlue]

Okay so I think there are about 4 chats for warbands. Well technically 3. The fourth one I think is actually more a pker chat that happens to do warbands.

 

King Warband - First popular chat up. Killed for 2 days due to another chat. Came back. Is the most lax chat of the 4 but usually avoid most of the warbands as other chat get them. As such waiting there is long.

 

Warband FC - The 1st or 2nd popular (depends on who you ask) of the warband chats. Rule: Every member must come armed in t60 or above (weapon and armor) or you are killed on the spot. Armed white dots are also killed, on the spot. It's a 50/50 chance for unarmed white dots. 100% if you end up with the wand.

 

Warband PK - Same as Warband FC I assume except all white dots get pked. About half and half warband/pking. You can be possibly blacklisted by the first 2 chats if anyone recognizes you and confirm you have been there. So there's a little use at your own risk there. But the word on the playground is they are better than any other there.

 

Saintprodigy - Actual pk FC that works during warband time.

 

No matter what chat you enter their will be backstabbing and chance of death.

[Flyingjj]

I've really settled into using Warband fc. It's hard to get into the chat a lot of the time, but if you do manage to get in when there are warbands active (and they seem to go in streaks), you can get yours done relatively quick. Not too much trouble with pkers, just be in the warband fc chat and watch for warnings against a certain world. I generally manage to get 2 25 loot warband, and the third about 1/2 the time due to the camp dying while I'm finishing looting or getting pked.

[Emaxganis]

When do we set up Tip It Warband fc?

 

Its impossibru now to use warbands pk/fc due to full FCs :(

[Bxpprod]

Do you really think it's going to be any easier with a tipit fc

[Emaxganis]

Well, it might be.

 

From what I saw yesterday, after reset warbands come "together" in 3-4 worlds at the same time, all we need to do is pick a different one :P .

[Leoo]

I've been wondering if this D&D will a long term affect on the prices of training resources for skills that are involved (planks for Construction, herbs and second ingredients for Herblore, bars for Smithing and seeds for Farming). Potentially over 300k experience a day without touching the skill is a substantial amount of experience to be rewarded to players without the need of spending a single coin on resources!

[PolarBearBlue]

I've been wondering if this D&D will a long term affect on the prices of training resources for skills that are involved (planks for Construction, herbs and second ingredients for Herblore, bars for Smithing and seeds for Farming). Potentially over 300k experience a day without touching the skill is a substantial amount of experience to be rewarded to players without the need of spending a single coin on resources!

 

It is. But realistically Jagex is trying to bring pking back, which in some way it has. That absurd amount of exp lures in skillers who otherwise would have never showed up. If you take a look at the price of batwing, royal and black dragonhide sets, those have gone up. The problem with measuring things like farming and herblore is that they are very volatile skills. You would think herbs would fall in price but they've been stable thus far. Lantadymnes are like 7k a pop. At any given day prices can tank for no reason. And you can still die with resources (I have twice and lost 200k worth of herb exp).

 

Warbands may eventually bring a lot more pkers now that worlds have timers. I actually think resources will go up in the long run for just about every skill but construction.

[Quest_Cape_K]

Herblore supplies which are used in untradeables should not drop due to being useful.

[Fallstar]

Managed 5/6 camps successfully in last two days using Warband pk.

[Gullible]

Warband pk seems to be much more successful than warband FC, I think their stricter rules help a lot more in keeping everyone safe.

[PolarBearBlue]

Warband pk seems to be much more successful than warband FC, I think their stricter rules help a lot more in keeping everyone safe.

 

It's also more pking than FC, so they are more willing to fight at every camp they can.

[Gullible]

That's true, I think their rule is kill before looting so they can secure the whole place, works better in my opinion when you compare it to warband fc's anti pk teams and whatnot.