Elf City – Design Documents - General Elf City Discussion

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

People are gonna shit bricks if dragon hatchet and pickaxe are moved down the drop tables though.

 

Unless of course we get t70 out by, i don't know, the elf city causing them to bottom out appropriately and then move em when no-one cares to throw in t80 or t90 ones.

 

Eh, I'm pretty sure if the developers actually cared more they could produce an appropriately difficult task/process to create a level 71 pickaxe/hatchet and add it to the Elf City. I don't think there's a need to intentionally downgrade dragon tools by making them way more common, but rather just add an appropriately more difficult method to get the tools of the next tier up.

 

I wasn't saying make them way more common - there's plenty of mid-high end drop table things like rune and alike that are fairly rare as drops go or lower end monsters that could benefit from a rarer valuable drop. You could downgrade them from prestigious drops of top end mobs without making them super common. Equally of course u can make t70 suitable challenging to get, the trouble arises though of how far can you push that limit? What about when t80, t90 or even maybe someday t99 come? Will it still be ok that t60 mid-low end items are so hard to get and thus forcing the high tiers to insane levels to acquire?

Also is undercutting an overly prestiged tier really that bad? Barrows and GWD certainly do a good job of undercutting basically all of dragon bar pick and hatchet in difficulty to obtain.

[Saradomin_Mage]

 

 

 

People are gonna shit bricks if dragon hatchet and pickaxe are moved down the drop tables though.

 

Unless of course we get t70 out by, i don't know, the elf city causing them to bottom out appropriately and then move em when no-one cares to throw in t80 or t90 ones.

 

Eh, I'm pretty sure if the developers actually cared more they could produce an appropriately difficult task/process to create a level 71 pickaxe/hatchet and add it to the Elf City. I don't think there's a need to intentionally downgrade dragon tools by making them way more common, but rather just add an appropriately more difficult method to get the tools of the next tier up.

 

I wasn't saying make them way more common - there's plenty of mid-high end drop table things like rune and alike that are fairly rare as drops go or lower end monsters that could benefit from a rarer valuable drop. You could downgrade them from prestigious drops of top end mobs without making them super common. Equally of course u can make t70 suitable challenging to get, the trouble arises though of how far can you push that limit? What about when t80, t90 or even maybe someday t99 come? Will it still be ok that t60 mid-low end items are so hard to get and thus forcing the high tiers to insane levels to acquire?

Also is undercutting an overly prestiged tier really that bad? Barrows and GWD certainly do a good job of undercutting basically all of dragon bar pick and hatchet in difficulty to obtain.

 

Eh, I don't mind about the rest of the dragon gear at all, but the tools in particular are special cases because they're currently the absolute top-end in their fields. But yeah, they could definitely look into introducing some additional sources for dragon hatchets/pickaxes (OSRS has pickaxes on the CE and KBD, for instance).

 

It's been terribly long since they last introduced skilling tools through Monster Hunting (or at all), so I'm particularly interested in how difficult they envision obtaining level 71 tools should be.

[strilmus]

can we talk about how it's still stupid that combat takes precedence over skilling for skilling tools

[Platinum_Myr]

This is simple, given their standard designs for combat vs skilling

 

Combat actually provides rarity

Skilling does not

 

You can't introduce an item via skilling in the normal method (ie: make it, and have it tradable) without reaching market saturation almost instantly. We don't have gathered materials that are difficult to obtain, so you can't slow it that way.

 

This is a rather unfortunate design. They could change this by adding things like that skilling based boss, or other methods of making that actually take delay and rarity into the equation.. That is, items which you make for profit and don't provide any or very *very* negligible experience. (either in itself, or because it's too slow to make ot compete against "real" training methods)

[Sorator]

Yeah, I think they feel worked into a corner with tools currently, because the best ones are quite rare drops from a very specific set of monsters, and they don't know how to add the next tier without backsliding on the obtaining difficulty on one hand, or making them so incredibly impossible to obtain that they reach the same rarity/expense as seismics on the other hand. I think they have options, but I'm fine with them taking some time to work specifically on that instead of within the scope of a massive project like this. Nothing says they can't come back and add crystal pickaxe/hatchet to the city later, after all.

 

I definitely want that div crater to be more like the painting and not that weird lime green like the rest of them all are; I've never liked the look of the div craters, save the original one for BoL.

 

I love the soft clay mine! But I find it weird that they include three pottery wheels and no kiln...???

[Saradomin_Mage]

This is simple, given their standard designs for combat vs skilling

 

Combat actually provides rarity

Skilling does not

 

You can't introduce an item via skilling in the normal method (ie: make it, and have it tradable) without reaching market saturation almost instantly. We don't have gathered materials that are difficult to obtain, so you can't slow it that way.

 

This is a rather unfortunate design. They could change this by adding things like that skilling based boss, or other methods of making that actually take delay and rarity into the equation.. That is, items which you make for profit and don't provide any or very *very* negligible experience. (either in itself, or because it's too slow to make ot compete against "real" training methods)

You could make skilling provide rarity. Have it so that when players attempt a skilling action, give them a random rare chance of making the end-product they want, and have failed attempts give an inferior version that can be alched to recoup some losses.

 

Make the raw material needed hard to obtain. Have a player collect material from a deposit, and give him a rare chance of collecting a superior material needed for the top-end item he's trying to make. Have the rest of the material he gathers be generally worthless.

 

Introduce a time delay on skilling actions. For instance, the player can only work with a base material after it has been enchanted or something. Have a magic box/kiln/whatever that the player can put some amount of raw materials into, and the enchanted material is ready for collection at some later time (e.g. compost bins).

 

This would basically be the skiller's equivalent of a boss battle imo.

[Miss Lioness]

This is simple, given their standard designs for combat vs skilling

 

Combat actually provides rarity

Skilling does not

 

You can't introduce an item via skilling in the normal method (ie: make it, and have it tradable) without reaching market saturation almost instantly. We don't have gathered materials that are difficult to obtain, so you can't slow it that way.

 

This is a rather unfortunate design. They could change this by adding things like that skilling based boss, or other methods of making that actually take delay and rarity into the equation.. That is, items which you make for profit and don't provide any or very *very* negligible experience. (either in itself, or because it's too slow to make ot compete against "real" training methods)

 

What about things like Strange Rocks, Bird nest seeds, Gems from gem rocks, pickpocket loot? Plenty of things for pretty much every skill out there where there is a certain levelling of items where one is rarer than the other.

[strilmus]

This is simple, given their standard designs for combat vs skilling

 

Combat actually provides rarity

Skilling does not

 

hey remember that time when the gilded pickaxe was so easy to get

 

it was almost easier than when i made that imcando pickaxe

 

also, isn't it great that skilling spots have hp bars and actually drop things when they're depleted? i couldn't imagine a system where we just fired randomly in the dark and hope something comes out of it eventually, as if it was based entirely on chance

[mlskid]

This is simple, given their standard designs for combat vs skilling

 

Combat actually provides rarity

Skilling does not

 

You can't introduce an item via skilling in the normal method (ie: make it, and have it tradable) without reaching market saturation almost instantly. We don't have gathered materials that are difficult to obtain, so you can't slow it that way.

 

This is a rather unfortunate design. They could change this by adding things like that skilling based boss, or other methods of making that actually take delay and rarity into the equation.. That is, items which you make for profit and don't provide any or very *very* negligible experience. (either in itself, or because it's too slow to make ot compete against "real" training methods)

Skilling boss... hmmm you mean sort of like the giant chinchompa minigame? Where you have a monster that needs to be subdued somehow and you gather resources with others in order to keep the beast at bay and then defeat it? Maybe you could do this with other skills, and make it have a drop table sort of like the QBD with really rare chances of finding items to create the higher tiered items? Could be interesting to see different ways this could be implemented.

[Steph]

My problem with a skilling boss is making it a boss and not a minigame

[strilmus]

don't we have combat minigames?

[Sy_Accursed]

I've heard the minigame thing about skilling boss before and I don;t think it holds water at all.

 

Just because you use skills to beat it how is it any different from any other boss encounter to warrant being a minigame?

You still enter a boss chamber and have to work to defeat the boss using the environment to your advantage.

Just instead of it being a case of knowing where to run to avoid attacks or dodging bombs and such, its knowing where to go to grab the necessary things to secure victory - kinda not all that different from say climbing up a wall to jump on Vorago to get a mace part.

Why should using skills other than combat magically make it into a minigame? It still follows the same basic principles of a boss battle?

If a skilling boss ought to be a mini-game, then so too should every other boss be classed as a mini-game or if skills some how magically = minigame but combat doesn't then all the combat mini-games should be evicted from that status as they obvious don;t use skills and therefore must be simple pvm and pvp and not a minigame at all.

[strilmus]

come to think of it, a world where all of the best things and resources result from killing something else doesn't really make much sense and is far more contrived a situation instead of one that say, relied on a knowledge of civil engineering and material science resulting in a solution to a significant problem or obstacle that is far more effective than trying to throw a single person with a stick at it, or if we're desperate, FIVE people with sticks

 

oh, but that guy knows so many ways to swing that stick! it sure is great that we have people that are good at swinging sticks because otherwise the world would be doomed

[Ammako]

My problem with a skilling boss is making it a boss and not a minigame

It would be pretty much the same thing except it would be called "boss" instead of "minigame".

[primadog]

Elf City is looking more and more like the unfulfilled promises of the RS3 launch.

[V O R K]

Hey we've all been waiting for that Divination crater for so long :'D

[Miss Lioness]

I think my idea has gone blown into oblivion.

 

Sooo many players suggesting making use of Dragon tools being a basis upon which crystal tools will be expanded upon.

 

I would hate to see that =C.

[mlskid]

 

My problem with a skilling boss is making it a boss and not a minigame

It would be pretty much the same thing except it would be called "boss" instead of "minigame".

 

The main difference to me on this subject is that "minigames" give points for activities. Those points then can be turned in for a reward, that's why Dungeoneering is less a skill, more a minigame. However, a "boss" gives direct drops after the activity has been finished, such as barrows, QBD, or any monster killing. So in my opinion just as long as they don't give the skilling boss a store that they can buy things from, then I don't really mind what they do with the rewards from beating the monster.

[stealthchris117]

I think my idea has gone blown into oblivion.

 

Sooo many players suggesting making use of Dragon tools being a basis upon which crystal tools will be expanded upon.

 

I would hate to see that =C.

 

I would not have a problem with upgrading dragon to crystal if we didn't already need to use a dragon pickaxe for the imcando. Either way it would be better to not have to upgrade dragon to crystal.... I hope they are just released with a machanic which is non combat related. Who cares if the dragon hatchets and or pickaxe drop in price. I think the dragon pick will remain high due to the imcando and the hatchet already had a replacement in the adze and it has maintained some value.

[V O R K]

Yes, lets make all of them retarded to acquire because wah wah prices

[Urza285]

Upgrading dragon to crystal isn't a bad concept if you think that it requires crystal seeds to sing it around the actual dragon piece. The issue really, is if the crystal seeds are stackable or not and if you can do more than 28 charges before degrading. I wouldn't want a higher grade pickaxe that I knew would degrade back down after 28 uses. Now if the crystal item reverted after 28 charges and each charge lasted a minute or so.... maybe.

[Miss Lioness]

 

I think my idea has gone blown into oblivion.

 

Sooo many players suggesting making use of Dragon tools being a basis upon which crystal tools will be expanded upon.

 

I would hate to see that =C.

 

I would not have a problem with upgrading dragon to crystal if we didn't already need to use a dragon pickaxe for the imcando. Either way it would be better to not have to upgrade dragon to crystal.... I hope they are just released with a machanic which is non combat related. Who cares if the dragon hatchets and or pickaxe drop in price. I think the dragon pick will remain high due to the imcando and the hatchet already had a replacement in the adze and it has maintained some value.

 

 

Ooh good thing, I will incorporate that now in my plea.

[Miss Lioness]

Well I added in the Dragon Pickaxe being a component for the Imcando Pickaxe, so here it is first to you all to read:

 

 

Crystal Hatchet/Pickaxe

I would like to express my idea on how these tools should be obtained, if Jagex decides to release these.

 

Along with the launch of Prifddinas, there should be the ability to obtain an untradeable and undegradeable Crystal Hatchet and Crystal Pickaxe. These will both be obtained in the same way, which I will soon expand about.

 

Firstly, these tools will be one tier higher than the current dragon tools making it level 71 in the skill to use. These will also not be used for fighting, and have as such an attack requirement of 1 with the stats as such. These are tools to work with, not to fight with.

 

Now about the method on obtaining these new tools. I have seen a lot of people worrying that if/when these tools get released, it will devalue the current best tools: Dragon Hatchet/Pickaxe. My intention is not to devalue it, but I do not want a ‘simple solution’ to be to make these Dragon tools a base component to the new Crystal Hatchet/Pickaxe. Besides, the Dragon Pickaxe is already a component to make the Imcando Pickaxe and if it gets also used for the Crystal Pickaxe, it would make the Imcandi Pickaxe dead content (if it not already is). Instead the Crystal Hatchet/Pickaxe should be made by obtaining several of components within Prifddinas.

There will be 8 clans in the city, and each clan has TWO specialized skills. That makes it perfect for these TWO tools. One of the skills of each clan will reward you one of the tool components, the other skill will reward the other component. To make it more clear an example: let’s take Ithell from the latest design document. The Ithell clan is specialized in Crafting and Construction. While training the Crafting skill within the city, by using the city acitvities such as making Crystal Flasks, you have a rare chance on a Crystal Hatchet component. Training the Construction skill on the other hand in this city, you have a chance to obtain the Pickaxe component. [Note: this is just an example to help me express myself more clearly and get the point across].The higher levelled the skilling activity is, the higher the droprate/chance on the component piece.

The rarity of the components can be debated about and I was thinking of something along a component in one á two hours of skilling, so it must equal to 1/X amount of actions one could do in around 2 hours. You could be lucky and get it in the first minute or be very unlucky and not get the component in 5 hours of skilling. There are already plenty of skilling activities that works similar: Mining outfit from the Golden Nymph, Triskellion piece from pickpocketing traders, etc.

 

To make the Hatchet and Pickaxe you will need 8 components, one from each clan. This can be made harder by requiring certain scrolls from the elves, either be bought or earned, or having other skill requirements. Though in my eyes this is not necessary, but can be expanded upon.

 

By having the Crystal tools be obtained this way, the player needs a massive quest requirements, you need access to the city so it requires the last quest in the line: Plague’s End, along with at least the minimum level of the lowest skilling activities within the city among a minimum of 8 selected skills. If one wants to have both Crystal tools, this is further bumped to a maximum of 16 skills.

 

This way there will be finally tools available by means of skilling instead of combat. Unfortunately several of the Clans will have a combat-skill specialization. Hopefully Jagex can find a way to circumvent the combat part to make it a truly skilling-obtained tool. I must further express the importance that these tools remain untradeable as well as non-degradable. The player has been working very hard at it to obtain these tools and should not go through the process again, unless the player has lost it by death, although there should be the option to put it in the Toolbelt to avoid that problem.

 

At last, if you have any comments or suggestions on this idea, I would very much like to hear it! Exchanging thoughts is always welcoming =3!

[Saradomin_Mage]

I don't think there's a need to make it skiller-friendly, considering that you'll already need something like 60 ranged to even beat ME1.

 

Sounds good.

 

Upgrading dragon to crystal isn't a bad concept if you think that it requires crystal seeds to sing it around the actual dragon piece. The issue really, is if the crystal seeds are stackable or not and if you can do more than 28 charges before degrading. I wouldn't want a higher grade pickaxe that I knew would degrade back down after 28 uses. Now if the crystal item reverted after 28 charges and each charge lasted a minute or so.... maybe.

I'm not a fan of constantly upgrading previous tools, because it takes away from those that the tools are aimed at. The guys with 61+ woodcutting and mining who won't have the skill requirements for Plague's End will end up paying for an even more expensive tool just to get their optimal skilling item.

[Major Dash]

Let me tell you, the dragon pickaxe is not aimed at those people with 61 mining. I would just really hate to see the 17m I spent on a d pik go to complete waste. I don't shit phats and gp, or trade sexual favors with Nex for her drops like some people do.....