200M in all Skills

[Abdulla]

 

 

Warbands devalue xp in 5 skills.

 

What's your stance on ba'ing/sc'ing skills. Exactly the same as warbands as your gaining xp without training the skill....

 

I think people forget that with out these "OP"  training methods 200m all skills would be an unrealistic goal for most....

 

 

Skills have value precisely because they're rare. They're rare because they're challenging. As soon as you make your type of argument, it defeats the purpose of even going for just that. The whole reason people go for 200m's in slow skills is to have something that is unique, something that very few other people have. If it ever becomes a realistic goal for most, it loses all value for those that are seeking an extra challenge and so they must look elsewhere instead. Slow 200m's are for a very particular market of players that want to distinguish themselves through hard work.

 

What I would like to know is how people with slow 200m's feel after their respective skills get updated and their xp/hour shoot to over double what they trained it at. Does having a high permanent rank make up for that, or would they have rather used that time to train other skills and wait for the updates. I know it's hard to predict the xp rate of a skill years ahead of time but it's still an interesting dilemma.

[Vendettas]

 

 

 

Warbands devalue xp in 5 skills.

 

What's your stance on ba'ing/sc'ing skills. Exactly the same as warbands as your gaining xp without training the skill....

 

I think people forget that with out these "OP"  training methods 200m all skills would be an unrealistic goal for most....

 

 

Skills have value precisely because they're rare. They're rare because they're challenging. As soon as you make your type of argument, it defeats the purpose of even going for just that. The whole reason people go for 200m's in slow skills is to have something that is unique, something that very few other people have. If it ever becomes a realistic goal for most, it loses all value for those that are seeking an extra challenge and so they must look elsewhere instead. Slow 200m's are for a very particular market of players that want to distinguish themselves through hard work.

 

What I would like to know is how people with slow 200m's feel after their respective skills get updated and their xp/hour shoot to over double what they trained it at. Does having a high permanent rank make up for that, or would they have rather used that time to train other skills and wait for the updates. I know it's hard to predict the xp rate of a skill years ahead of time but it's still an interesting dilemma.

 

 

As was mentioned earlier, xp/hour is inevitably going to increase over time for all skills. Those who got 99s/200m while the xp/hour was low (relative) have the benefit of having that specific 99/200m x number of months prior to someone who would wait for the xp increase. Sadly, the 'benefit' of getting a 99/200m is fairly low in present day runescape, other than a sort of e-fame or the highscore place (that is, for example the first to 99 (or 85) slayer had a huge benefit of getting whip drops and selling them while they were highly priced. For these people, the benefit of putting in the time at a lower xp rate was worth it, and likely wouldn't mind the future xp rate increases as much. There hasn't been a similar sort of benefit of being fast to 99/200m with the last couple of skills - perhaps 99 summoning and the ability to use yaks/steels, but alas..)

 

I compare your idea to the idea of buying a console game (or the console itself) on release day as compared to waiting x number of months until the price drops. The early buyers pay more money, but have the enjoyment of playing that game (or using the console) for a period of time before the laggard. If the enjoyment of the game outweighs the extra cost, then it's worth it. If not, you should wait.

 

Thus, with the old, slow 99s/200m, there isn't much benefit of racing to #1. I've followed the thread since page one, and there has always been talk of maxing, or getting 200m, in the skill that you anticipate not being updated to become faster (or, not being updated for the longest amount of time). That is how runescape has become, and until there is a real benefit of being 1st to 99, or 1st to 200m, that's how it should remain. 

 

The same logic can be applied to something that you think will be nerfed in the future, effectively lowering the xp rate. If, for example, there was a worry of warbands being nerfed, than one should capitalize on the xp rates as much as possible until the nerf.

[G0d_vs_D3vil]

 

 

 

Hours to 200m rc before runespan: 2671

Hours to 200m rc currently: 1558

 

Hours to 200m mining before warbands: 1700

Hours to 200m mining after warbands: 133

 

I get that skills get faster. That's an important part of the game. Making a skill 14 times faster and making it take essentially no time is different.

 

By the way, the productivity of superheating was like 160k at most (remember that magic xp/hour was basically worthless).

 

You've manlipulated the figures in you advantage....

 

I get your point but let me fix your figures:

 

Hours to 200m rc before runespan: 2671

Hours to 200m rc currently: 1558

 

Agreed on that one.

 

However I worked mining out as

Hours to 200m mining before warbands: 888

Hours to 200m mining after warbands: 133

 

I lowered the mining rate to 225k p/hr, just so it was in your advantage. I got this rate because mining was a multi-skill before wbs. So 1hr of mining also included ~75k smith & ~75k mage. Don't discount mage because you view it as "worthless" as this is your opinion. Fact is 200m mining also ='ed 200mage/200smith at the same time so you have to take that into account.

 

I got an increase 6.01, not "14". Also farm/herb/con were not affected. Smith was increased by 4. But you also need to account that you need to spend 400hrs (glacors) getting 200m mage since your not superheating gold.

 

I could spend an hour picking apart every logical flaw in your argument, but I think I'll leave it as an exercise for you to do on your own time. On a quick read-through I counted 8 incredibly concerning errors. I hope you become a better person out of this.

 

 

I did :) My post here pretty much shows your limited knowledge of how multi-skilling works and how you don't account the time for other 200m's if you're wb'ing 200m mining.

 

EDIT: Had a look at your runetracker history. Smith/mine/magic was never done at the same time :/ So much for being ee's dep owner

 

ur math is bad. rsn? wanna see how much mining xp u made via heating and droping bars:>

[muggiwhplar]

I get the feeling that we're never gonna know if his math is right or wrong, since the people who claim it's wrong refuse to demonstrate why >_>

[Abdulla]

I get the feeling that we're never gonna know if his math is right or wrong, since the people who claim it's wrong refuse to demonstrate why >_>

Why point out his mathematical flaws when we could leave it to him as an excercise to become a better person.

[Warband Prod]

 

ur math is bad. rsn? wanna see how much mining xp u made via heating and droping bars:>

 

 

RSN name is Warband Prod. I haven't done much mining/smithing and those were the rates I achieved, maybe ~90k mining because of urns. I think you did your mining pre eoc? Rates have changed significantly since the action bar was released.

[784]

I don't know why his math is wrong but I also don't care about that. I do know why him valuing the 200m Magic exp is wrong, and it's not a matter of it being Hedgehog's opinion. It's because with the Magic exp from slayer tasks that you use combat magic for and many, many little accidental magic exp gains that the efficient player going for 200m all will pick up along the way, you will be 200m Magic anyway, and spend 0 hours devoting single-skill training time to magic, so gaining extra magic exp while you're training mining doesn't help, it's not saving any hours because magic doesn't cost any hours, you'll already be 200m from all the extra magic exp you got from slayer, and just shit like lunar farming and teles.

 

I don't know the math on this either and I don't know how much this has changed since I read someone explaining it properly with the math, but my only real point is that Magic exp is, from a 200m in all skills standpoint, close to worthless, or completely worthless.

[G0d_vs_D3vil]

 

 

ur math is bad. rsn? wanna see how much mining xp u made via heating and droping bars:>

 

 

RSN name is Warband Prod. I haven't done much mining/smithing and those were the rates I achieved, maybe ~90k mining because of urns. I think you did your mining pre eoc? Rates have changed significantly since the action bar was released.

 

check scuzy record. wbs made huge impact and it's way much bigger damage then runespan.

[Miss Lioness]

Just to get something out here:

 

If you would warband Mining, you would also need to warband smithing and possibly train magic versus mining with BA bonus exp and superheating for additional smithing and magic exp.

[Serfal]

 

 

I don't consider 20 minutes of activity every 7 hours as "bringing back" pvp

Clearly you have no idea how long it lasts which either means you don't do warbands or you only do warbands for the exp then go back to doing whatever is considered efficient

 

He doesnt do warbands because he feels it devalues his xp, which is a bit amusing coming from the deputy owner of efficiency experts.

 

much inefficient for efficient expert

 

Warbands devalue xp in 5 skills.

Yet your clan leader and like 90% of your clan and people in general seem to jump on the opportunity to save extra time playing this game that is in constant development and changes weekly lol

 

<.<

[Dwoofie]

Mining with warbands.

 

Each warband would be 363864 xp/warband in different skills. 

Assuming you have a warband FC that knows what it's doing, it would still take 10 minutes to do all 3 camps, and 5 more to get ready. (Most warbands FCs usually expect you to show up at least 10 minutes before it starts though.)  This means 15 minutes/363864 xp. 

 

1455456 mining xp/hour. Which would be around 128.5 hours from level 99 to 200m xp.

 

Or a minimum of 137.41 hours from 1-99, assuming everything goes perfectly, and you can magically gain the same xp at level 1 as you would at level 99. 

Though, this is highly unrealistic. Seeing as this means you'll never encounter PKers, who kill you, or slow you down. There is never a level 4-100 that you are unable to kill, stealing resources, and lowering the amount you get. And other things wasting time.

But, even if 137.41 hours is unrealistic, 200-300 hours should be humanly possible. Of course, this also means you must do smithing too, + a 3rd skill to never waste a camp.

So it'd be around 400-600 hours to get 200m smithing/mining(+ a third skill). Unlike superheat mining which would be around 1600-1700 hours (maybe as low as 1500 with near perfection) for 200m mining/smith/magic. But magic is essentially worthless, because of experience gained through other tasks.

 

Conclusion: Warbands is still at least 3-4x faster than superheating. 

 

If I've done any errors, feel free to point them out. 
 

[Serfal]

 

 

 

ur math is bad. rsn? wanna see how much mining xp u made via heating and droping bars:>

 

 

RSN name is Warband Prod. I haven't done much mining/smithing and those were the rates I achieved, maybe ~90k mining because of urns. I think you did your mining pre eoc? Rates have changed significantly since the action bar was released.

 

check scuzy record. wbs made huge impact and it's way much bigger damage then runespan.

 

Scuzzy did BA for bonus mining xp, I highly doubt minebands had a massive impact on how much exp he managed to pull off in that short amount of time seeing as it was only 360K out of like 5M+ he did every single day, lol.

[Warband Prod]

 

Scuzzy did BA for bonus mining xp, I highly doubt minebands had a massive impact on how much exp he managed to pull off in that short amount of time seeing as it was only 360K out of like 5M+ he did every single day, lol.

 

 

Problem with using the method Scuzzy is using is only 1 can really do it at a time.

[Warband Prod]

I lot of people have been confused with my op, I feel that I should clear up a few things....

 

So first off I posted :

 

I lowered the mining rate to 225k p/hr, just so it was in your advantage. I got this rate because mining was a multi-skill before wbs. So 1hr of mining also included ~75k smith & ~75k mage. Don't discount mage because you view it as "worthless" as this is your opinion. Fact is 200m mining also ='ed 200mage/200smith at the same time so you have to take that into account.

 

I calculated that 90k is a solid average rate of mine xp p/hr(factoring in banking, qh'ing, etc). The total for smith/mage/mine is 600m. So 200/90= ~2.2 hrs. So 2.2/3 (mage,mine,smith) is ~733hrs per 1 skill . The original post I was only discussing MINING in comparison. For 200m mining it takes ~200hrs via wbs so it is roughly an increase of 5 times the original method not the "14" times Meredith claimed. (Original post was slight difference in hrs)

 

With the magic xp I was told that 0 time is spent on magic. However this is not the case as 200m slayer only nets you 200m str, ~150-200m att and 100m def (using mage). (Roughly) It is also a common method to use def (mage) for charms as the slayer ratio is ~0.5:1 We all know that mage slay was nerfed around 4mths ago, and may not return in the future :(

 

So in conclusion I was only discussing MINING and wasn't stating that super heating was more efficient then wbs, rather stating there was only a 5 times increase from the most efficient method before warbands not "14".

 

I sorry to all those who were confused, hopefully this will help clarify what I stated in my original post.

 

@Meredith I think you didn't understand what I meant when I wrote that mining took 888hrs. This is because the most efficient before was superheating @ lrc which included smith/mage/mine xp p/hr. You seemed to think that mining took 1700hrs which is not the case as you also get mage/smith. I also can understand your view on mage but I differ on this after the mage slay nerf.

[RWH]

Warbands actually increased my interest in PvP and is a fun way to gain XP. I don't really gain XP to be #1 at anything though, I gain XP past 99 because I enjoy it and setting the goal of top 25/200m all keeps me busy for a long time, rather than being bored constantly. :P People screaming "lolxp" "xp is devalued, why bother?" doesn't stop me from doing what I enjoy and never will.

 

Methods always change and skills become easier. It seems a lot of people do not seem to understand that fact and instead, expect methods to always stick to being "hard" (which in their minds, means doing something for longer). People always complained about how bad the grinding on this game was and I guess Jagex have acted on that feedback, resulting in skills being made more bearable and easier to allow more players to access content which they create. But hey, now you get EasyScape chants, whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

If you don't like the fact that XP becomes easier (as you can "devaluation") then really, you should stop gaining XP now and find something else, or move to 07 because this will never change.

 

That said though, like everything, it will be nerfed soon. Jagex tend to wait for a lot of people to get used to the content before unleashing the nerfhammer, deeming the content "dead" and a waste of time. 

[Geel]

I'm not even tempted to pay attention now whilst training Divination..Fragments were the only thing that made me actually find the skill somewhat "fun" - Competing with others trying to get as many as you could made it interesting but now it's like ugh..

 

 Do you call it still fun when you need to stare your screen to only have 40 succesful catches on average per hour? It was fun pre november when you could when you averaged 150+ succesful catches an hour and that was't just for the XP. I'm actually happy they nerfed it because it would keep getting worse and worse. 

 

It's just weird they only decided to nerf it just now. :P

[Miss Lioness]

I lot of people have been confused with my op, I feel that I should clear up a few things....

 

So first off I posted :

 

I lowered the mining rate to 225k p/hr, just so it was in your advantage. I got this rate because mining was a multi-skill before wbs. So 1hr of mining also included ~75k smith & ~75k mage. Don't discount mage because you view it as "worthless" as this is your opinion. Fact is 200m mining also ='ed 200mage/200smith at the same time so you have to take that into account.

 

I calculated that 90k is a solid average rate of mine xp p/hr(factoring in banking, qh'ing, etc). The total for smith/mage/mine is 600m. So 200/90= ~2.2 hrs. So 2.2/3 (mage,mine,smith) is ~733hrs per 1 skill . The original post I was only discussing MINING in comparison. For 200m mining it takes ~200hrs via wbs so it is roughly an increase of 5 times the original method not the "14" times Meredith claimed. (Original post was slight difference in hrs)

 

With the magic xp I was told that 0 time is spent on magic. However this is not the case as 200m slayer only nets you 200m str, ~150-200m att and 100m def (using mage). (Roughly) It is also a common method to use def (mage) for charms as the slayer ratio is ~0.5:1 We all know that mage slay was nerfed around 4mths ago, and may not return in the future :(

 

So in conclusion I was only discussing MINING and wasn't stating that super heating was more efficient then wbs, rather stating there was only a 5 times increase from the most efficient method before warbands not "14".

 

I sorry to all those who were confused, hopefully this will help clarify what I stated in my original post.

 

@Meredith I think you didn't understand what I meant when I wrote that mining took 888hrs. This is because the most efficient before was superheating @ lrc which included smith/mage/mine xp p/hr. You seemed to think that mining took 1700hrs which is not the case as you also get mage/smith. I also can understand your view on mage but I differ on this after the mage slay nerf.

 

But you still need to be @ lrc for 1700 hours to even achieve dat 200m mining =3!

 

As far as I can see in your calculations, you are moving mage and smith exp gains to mining magically (get the pun?), which cannot be done.

 

If you say about 90k pure mining exp/h (during superheating/dropping/qh and whatnot):

(200m-13m) / 90k = 2077.

 

So you need to be in LRC for 2077 hours according to those calculations.

 

I think thats your mistake there o.O But don't take it from me as I am a girl =)

[Galasrin]

 

I lot of people have been confused with my op, I feel that I should clear up a few things....

 

So first off I posted :

 

I lowered the mining rate to 225k p/hr, just so it was in your advantage. I got this rate because mining was a multi-skill before wbs. So 1hr of mining also included ~75k smith & ~75k mage. Don't discount mage because you view it as "worthless" as this is your opinion. Fact is 200m mining also ='ed 200mage/200smith at the same time so you have to take that into account.

 

I calculated that 90k is a solid average rate of mine xp p/hr(factoring in banking, qh'ing, etc). The total for smith/mage/mine is 600m. So 200/90= ~2.2 hrs. So 2.2/3 (mage,mine,smith) is ~733hrs per 1 skill . The original post I was only discussing MINING in comparison. For 200m mining it takes ~200hrs via wbs so it is roughly an increase of 5 times the original method not the "14" times Meredith claimed. (Original post was slight difference in hrs)

 

With the magic xp I was told that 0 time is spent on magic. However this is not the case as 200m slayer only nets you 200m str, ~150-200m att and 100m def (using mage). (Roughly) It is also a common method to use def (mage) for charms as the slayer ratio is ~0.5:1 We all know that mage slay was nerfed around 4mths ago, and may not return in the future :(

 

So in conclusion I was only discussing MINING and wasn't stating that super heating was more efficient then wbs, rather stating there was only a 5 times increase from the most efficient method before warbands not "14".

 

I sorry to all those who were confused, hopefully this will help clarify what I stated in my original post.

 

@Meredith I think you didn't understand what I meant when I wrote that mining took 888hrs. This is because the most efficient before was superheating @ lrc which included smith/mage/mine xp p/hr. You seemed to think that mining took 1700hrs which is not the case as you also get mage/smith. I also can understand your view on mage but I differ on this after the mage slay nerf.

 

But you still need to be @ lrc for 1700 hours to even achieve dat 200m mining =3!

 

As far as I can see in your calculations, you are moving mage and smith exp gains to mining magically (get the pun?), which cannot be done.

 

If you say about 90k pure mining exp/h (during superheating/dropping/qh and whatnot):

(200m-13m) / 90k = 2077.

 

So you need to be in LRC for 2077 hours according to those calculations.

 

I think thats your mistake there o.O But don't take it from me as I am a girl =)

 

@Lioness, I came up with the same calculations.

 

@Warband Prod

Reading all the math "facts" that have been spewed has left my mind reeling, as I'm not sure how such calculations such as how is "200/90 = 2.2" the same as "200,000,000/90,000 = 2,222.2". Obviously those numbers are assuming the same rate for the first 13m which is inaccurate. When you remove trailing zeroes while doing math, you have to remove the same number of zeroes for each number e.g. remove 3 zeroes from "90,000" then remove 3 from "200,000,000" which is actually "200,000/90"

 

So using the numbers you have provided of 90k mining xp/hr 75k magic xp/hr and 75k smithing xp/hr.

 

Mining:

200,000,000-13,000,000 = 187,000,000

187,000,000 / 90,000 = 2077 hours.

 

Smithing AND Magic:

In the time it takes to get 200m mining you get:

2077 * 75,000 = 155,775,000.

 

So you don't even get 200m smith/magic as you are claiming, you would still need to spend time training these skills doing other things(assuming you started all of this when all 3 were at 13m)

 

 

CONCLUSION: reading wrong math spewed as "fact" makes my head hurt.

[Warband Prod]

I really don't understand why people are making this so hard and confusing :/.

 

Mining pre wbs was a multi-skill, you would receive xp in both mage/smith if you did it efficiently. This has to be factored into the amount of time you spend getting 200m mining post warbands.

 

Meredith posted that wbs made mining 14 times faster, which is not the case as you now have to get mage (311.5hrs @ glacors 500k p/hr) and another 111.26 hrs getting smith (wbs 1.4m p/hr). So the additional hours for smith/mage are 422.76hrs + 200hrs (wb'ing mining) Total : 622.76

 

Pre wb's time to 200m mining : 1700

Post wb's time to 200m mining (factoring in mage + smith xp lost) = 622.76

 

1700/622.76 =2.72 times faster.

 

Meredith stated 14 times, but when you factor in the time spent having to make up mage/smith xp it's only 2.72 times faster.

[Quyneax]

Not everybody who was getting 200m mining at the time was also getting 200m smithing or 200m magic. In fact, I believe only Suomi kept up superheating for such a long time that you could say he got 200 mine/smith there.

 

Comparing 200m mining then to 200m mining now, it is now those 1500 hours (or whatever) faster, which is a massive increase in speed. Certainly, if you would have been training magic through mining, the increase would be lower (though still massive), but that's not what most people actually do. In fact, a lot of people who would never have dreamed of training mining are now training it - it's not just that mining is now 10x+ faster, it's that it's moved up the ranks of fast skills and settled firmly at the top.

 

Also, when taking glacors into account, don't forget that 311 hours at glacors will make you about a billion gp, which is worth a decent amount of time as well (especially if you don't take donations or merchant, but it's still months worth of merchanting I believe, or a good starting capital).

[BenDover]

If you didn't super heat then you were doing it wrong anyways. 

 

Also @ many people posting and you know who you are, a personal opinion does not justify your argument. 

[Hedgehog]

I don't have much time to post before class, so this is all you're getting for now:

Mining xp/hour + smithing xp/hour + magic xp/hour != mining xp/hour in the same way that inches + centimeters + miles != inches. You can't add things unless they're the same units.

[ThumpertonRS]

Skiller 703 making gains.

[DownToFletch]

so is kingduffy basically done? 

[Number1 Boss]

skiller was banned on 07, very possible he could come back