Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

[aerendil]

kk, ty, wasn't sure about this since when i did a bunch of abds with some friends (all 110+ dg) awhile back, they said no prayers at all XD.

[Articultural]

Also, that's a floor 15.

 

 

So you assume he's cheating because he gets faster dungeons than you and doesn't tell you how he does it? :rolleyes:

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Also, that's a floor 15.

 

So you assume he's cheating because he gets faster dungeons than you and doesn't tell you how he does it? :rolleyes:

If you want to put it that way, yes. But I explained my reasoning well enough.

If you seriously still have problems with this, take it to PM.

If you have any issues beyond that, I will ask you to leave DGS alone.

[Andy]

Grimy bunyip the evil queen of efficiency has set up a Hiscores spreadsheet for the Dgs ranks. If you're interested in seeing where you're placed (wingmen/mods/keyers only, sorry.), check it out here:

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq4cbmjYgBekdDdzcDZBckhwZkJGSVh4b09fX0ZuMmc#gid=2

It'll also show the weekly gains of each rank on the delta tab.

 

Thanks!

[z0diark]

all looks good, exept for 1 line. the one about not hexing unless you have RIGOUR, wont rigour heal him?

Geomancer doesn't appear to regain HP from his prayer disabling attack unless you have a protect/deflect prayer up.

Sp you can use soul split/wrath etc without him healing?

[Youmu]

Geomancer doesn't appear to regain HP from his prayer disabling attack unless you have a protect/deflect prayer up.

False, I always use +15% att/str pray on him and that appears to heal Geo when using said attack. Could apply the same to Rigour possibly.

[Tipsi]

He does extra damage to you but doesnt heal (at least nothing significant/that i noticed)

[Toad]

I have never asked anybody how they do things because it is down to experience and you learn from your own floors and experiences, I've said there are people like Bu11 who know mostly when things are going to dead end to move it it's map awareness and it's also heaps of experience and keying mainly, and yes in that 11 minute warped those are 5 of the best dungeoneers, there are some other in their category who could perhaps manage that but those 5 are excellent.

 

I was curious into how long a path can lead, and in what set patterns they do it which I have a generic idea I would have liked to look into but I really can't be bothered at times.

 

I think there's of course data and all the research you can hope to manage, but that can only take you so far.

 

Let's say you study for 5 years and you do very well in that subject, you go out into the real-world and you can't apply that knowledge... DPS and things can only take you so far it's a good start but then there's the tips and tricks you have to learn within floors.

 

I know part of the mentality here is not to encourage a certain style of dungeoneering IE suiciding, but there is a skill and definitely I don't see why it's frowned upon although it is.

 

I for instance in DGS have been told I am only good because either A) I suicide or B) because I'm maxed... and that is the reason I actually stopped dungeoneering because I get approached and asked for help with things, and then the other side which is sort of dungeoneering politics is that you can be asked for help one minute and the next a total contrast of that.

 

I think there's a lot of things that people choose to ignore it's either good or bad but if people aren't willing to experiment for themselves and find what works for themselves it's hard to learn, like people who only gate one door, or refuse to use the map.

 

I came in here and tryed to promote smarter ways like map reading and even if I did teach it to only a few it will have at some point filtered down to quite a few of you which has improved your averages.

 

Another point I have to bring up is everytime I'm in the CC people are always slating places like 3BO but you have to realise if you limit yourselves to one clan you are never going to further your knowledge, for example if I grow up in a completely different culture from you my lifestyle and prioritising will be differrent from you, same with clans like DGS and 3BO it's two different styles, we have an elitist conception of platebeards and lots of bad assocations with armour but there is also some very good dungeoneers you can learn from that maybe some of your skills can get honed to and your connections with tiers of dungeoneers that can help in the long run.

 

That is all.

[Obtaurian]

Well said. To add a little to that, I know that we as a clan have always been very critical of pretty much everyone outside of DGS, but I don't want people to be critical without being constructive or at least being open to learning things from other people/clans. Yes, 3BO has lax rules and is very popular, so they have tons of really bad or lazy dungeoneers, but there's definitely some really good dungeoneers, too, and this is regardless of whether or not they have a plate or a hex. Some of the best dungeoneers in DGS learned from or learned with some of the best from 3BO. There's potential for a mutually beneficial relationship here.

 

Furthermore, and it pains me to have to clarify this once again - our third bind guidelines ("bindlines" - Michael) are for the purpose of learning combat mechanics and intelligent room-clearing to reduce damage and death. The increased DPS is nice, but it's not the main point of interest. We're not against plate binds - we're against lazy dungeoneering.

 

I'd like to remind everyone that one of the huge strengths of DGS is that we as a clan are always trying to improve, so don't rule things out if they can help you improve your floor times and your team's exp/h, and don't make excuses for yourself or other people (ie, people saying Toad is only good because he suicides, which isn't true at all).

[Mazhar]

hai toed y u haf big wurds :[

[Nomrombom]

What is suiciding?

[notasoupbowl]

 

dw games i solo ramos without plate

[Het_Volk]

Share your secret please! :pray:

[AHappySeeker]

wut do after that though? Pray range, tank mage?

 

EDIT: Oh, wait. Is that the mage or the healer that you're killing?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

wut do after that though? Pray range, tank mage?

 

EDIT: Oh, wait. Is that the mage or the healer that you're killing?

that's the healer.

She might be able to longrange the mage from there, then safespot the warrior while meleeing the ranger.

[Singh]

First ever dung with DGS and it was mind-blasting :)

 

cant wait to do some more

[Grimy_Bunyip]

After reviewing the relevant data between the DGS admins and a few ranks, we have come to the conclusion that rapier should be removed as an option as a third bind altogether.

With the exception of those players who are using the primal rapier to collect accuracy data on stab.

 

From now on we're going to take a more personal approach to binds.

 

If you, for any reason, cannot use the basic bind setups we have suggested for whatever reason (insufficient Combat/RC/DG stats for example)

You are now asked to contact a DGS admin or rank in private.

I would prefer you contact me, but other DGS ranks are usually also qualified to answer.

Just keep in mind that not all DGS ranks research DPS. Some are just keyers.

 

With the removal of the primal rapier, as a recommended offensive third bind, this essentially leaves the CCS, emp fire staff, and primal gauntlets.

We understand that not everybody has high magic/runecrafting/defense levels.

So we are now looking into possibility of niche uses of primal maul and primal spear as offensive third binds.

But I would not like to make any statements about these two weapons without further insight.

[Nomrombom]

What is suiciding?

[Jimmyw3000]

What is suiciding?

the way to recharge pray/hp and tele to ht

[xpx]

What is suiciding?

There are many grades of suiciding in dungeoneering. The one Toad is talking about is dieing in need of prayer, lifepoints or a quick move to ht while having the wrath prayer activated for extra damage. This form does not consider efficiency, and although it quite significantly(compared to the normal 0,5 deaths per floor dungeoneering) lowers average floor times, is inefficient, considered easier, and generally looked down upon in DGS(you are allowed to do it, just not advertise or make others do it).

 

Another form of suiciding is when you actually consider efficiency and follow the 30 second rule- if a death saves the whole team 30 seconds or more, you should take the death. This adds up to around 2-3 deaths average and is nearly as efficient or a little less efficient from the cost of being less frustrating. The form is allowed in DGS, but you'd have to agree to it prefloor if you want to expect everyone to follow it. Alot of higher level teams in DGS follow this form of suiciding, but not all.

[ghjkl]

After reviewing the relevant data between the DGS admins and a few ranks, we have come to the conclusion that rapier should be removed as an option as a third bind altogether.

With the exception of those players who are using the primal rapier to collect accuracy data on stab.

 

From now on we're going to take a more personal approach to binds.

 

If you, for any reason, cannot use the basic bind setups we have suggested for whatever reason (insufficient Combat/RC/DG stats for example)

You are now asked to contact a DGS admin or rank in private.

I would prefer you contact me, but other DGS ranks are usually also qualified to answer.

Just keep in mind that not all DGS ranks research DPS. Some are just keyers.

 

With the removal of the primal rapier, as a recommended offensive third bind, this essentially leaves the CCS, emp fire staff, and primal gauntlets.

We understand that not everybody has high magic/runecrafting/defense levels.

So we are now looking into possibility of niche uses of primal maul and primal spear as offensive third binds.

But I would not like to make any statements about these two weapons without further insight.

I don't have data but you said so yourself that baxe is better than maul in every situation at some point, and I don't see how spear could be better than rapier in any way.

[ghjkl]

What is suiciding?

There are many grades of suiciding in dungeoneering. The one Toad is talking about is dieing in need of prayer, lifepoints or a quick move to ht while having the wrath prayer activated for extra damage. This form does not consider efficiency, and although it quite significantly(compared to the normal 0,5 deaths per floor dungeoneering) lowers average floor times, is inefficient, considered easier, and generally looked down upon in DGS(you are allowed to do it, just not advertise or make others do it).

 

Another form of suiciding is when you actually consider efficiency and follow the 30 second rule- if a death saves the whole team 30 seconds or more, you should take the death. This adds up to around 2-3 deaths average and is nearly as efficient or a little less efficient from the cost of being less frustrating. The form is allowed in DGS, but you'd have to agree to it prefloor if you want to expect everyone to follow it. Alot of higher level teams in DGS follow this form of suiciding, but not all.

What situation would you be in where dying would save the team 30 seconds?

The I go is if you don't have food/prayer and no one else has food/altar gated then just die. If someone else is hoarding/have money for altar then ask for food/altar. I have a script to check everyone's invents quickly. Basically try to avoid deaths but never stop floor progress to do so.

[LitterBug]

I don't think you can really measure exactly 30 seconds.

However, if you take a death to save everybody some time - it's not a bad idea.

Although it may not be "efficient', "suiciding" can be conducive to learning which is one of the main points of DGS.

I'm sure you'll pay a lot more attention to side stepping/safe spotting/etc and all those little tricks to reduce food needed if you're actually trying to do the DG as fast as possible and not stopping all the time to grab an inventory full of food just because you can't get your protection prayers on or you don't want to practice combat techniques.

[brunokiller]

So we are now looking into possibility of niche uses of primal maul and primal spear as offensive third binds.

But I would not like to make any statements about these two weapons without further insight.

 

About the spear, its stab option seems to be redundant (why'd you remove the rapier if it wouldnt?), which leaves crush and slash, in which both 2h and b axe excel because of the berserker ring.

 

Primal maul might only be better on t11 rangers and maybe some bosses but crush only hits decent (I have experience with mauls ;) ) on bosses with next to no defence at all. Might be worth testing with 99 attack. I've only ever seen one other person with a maul, who bound a 2h shortly after when I told him his attack level wasn't low enough.

 

 

 

On another note, I got 100 dungeoneering and a cele cat (I'm camping magic like a boss anyways, no brainer 3rd bind), but I need 1.8m more magic xp so I'm not dunging for a few days.

[AHappySeeker]

What is sidestepping? Trapping melee enemies between attacks to equalise attack speed?