08-Mar-2011 � Artisans Workshop

[Bladewing]

nope, you are reading it right

 

and fyi steel and iron plates are junk - far more are being smithed than are being consumed in summoning. this is evidenced by both of them sitting at around break-even alch value.

[Fools_Taco]

Welp, here it is people - the big ground-breaking smithing update that is going to change combat as we know it. Oh wait... the massive update we had hoped for it just another way to train smithing, so you can continue making Rune Platebodies when you die and lose your Rune Platebody.

 

So much potential, so much waste of programming resources. (I like how wetstones have no use whatsoever)

 

 

I was a loud supporter of the smithing update / combat changer ......

 

i was toally wrong.

 

This update chews.... smithing is still usless.

 

I humblly accept any "HA I TOLD YOU SO"s

[Crossed_Body]

I'd actually like a system of dynamic smithing much like the smithing of ceremonial swords. Different dents increased or decreased stats and stuff.

[1wngedangel]

Why was this update solely on XP, when making new types of armours at a higher Smithing level would have been more useful for players?

 

The focus on this update was the training.

It's funny how in the BTS thread I said that this was probably the focus of the update as opposed to high level content and everyone thought I was an idiot.

[green9090]

Why was this update solely on XP, when making new types of armours at a higher Smithing level would have been more useful for players?

 

The focus on this update was the training.

It's funny how in the BTS thread I said that this was probably the focus of the update as opposed to high level content and everyone thought I was an idiot.

What. I don't remember a single person saying anything other than that they HOPED that MAYBE there was something non-training oriented that Jagex weren't letting on. The BTS was very clear.

[Helm_Lardar]

 

But royal canno---------lol how ugly. Jagex and their fetish for gold colour (PoH, Trim armour, etc).

 

Oh gosh-the real world's fetish for gold colour-how ugly. Y'know, it's stupid because it reflects real life.

 

Personally I rather like the colours, but gold doesn't always look bad. For example, the imperial palace of Madrid is completely decked out with gold, marble, you name an expensive old thing and it's there. But it still looks amazing.

 

Jagex are only trying to imitate that. Personally I think the mixture of style with functionality works well, but maybe for you it's tacky?

[Unknown_Warrior]

Can anyone tell me the best way to get xp/hr (and, by proxy, respect) at a reasonable cost?

[Blyaunte]

 

But royal canno---------lol how ugly. Jagex and their fetish for gold colour (PoH, Trim armour, etc).

 

Oh gosh-the real world's fetish for gold colour-how ugly. Y'know, it's stupid because it reflects real life.

 

Personally I rather like the colours, but gold doesn't always look bad. For example, the imperial palace of Madrid is completely decked out with gold, marble, you name an expensive old thing and it's there. But it still looks amazing.

 

Jagex are only trying to imitate that. Personally I think the mixture of style with functionality works well, but maybe for you it's tacky?

 

Gee -- I dunno about you, but when Jagex refers to it as "pimping" your cannon, I tend to think that it lean towards "tacky" ... :rolleyes:

 

Prolly just me though.

:unsure:

[Askthedude]

 

But royal canno---------lol how ugly. Jagex and their fetish for gold colour (PoH, Trim armour, etc).

 

Oh gosh-the real world's fetish for gold colour-how ugly. Y'know, it's stupid because it reflects real life.

 

Personally I rather like the colours, but gold doesn't always look bad. For example, the imperial palace of Madrid is completely decked out with gold, marble, you name an expensive old thing and it's there. But it still looks amazing.

 

Jagex are only trying to imitate that. Personally I think the mixture of style with functionality works well, but maybe for you it's tacky?

 

Gee -- I dunno about you, but when Jagex refers to it as "pimping" your cannon, I tend to think that it lean towards "tacky" ... :rolleyes:

 

Prolly just me though.

:unsure:

 

It wouldn't be that bad if they hadn't made cannons into giant bubbles... Jeez, to me it looks like something from Funorb not RuneScape.

[green9090]

to me it looks like something from Funorb not RuneScape.

I hadn't thought of this before, but this is the PERFECT way of describing it.

[Range_This11]

Yeah, the cannons aren't "pimp" they're gaudy.

[Alphanos]

FAQ's out.

 

[hide=Jagex's FAQ on the update]

Why was this update solely on XP, when making new types of armours at a higher Smithing level would have been more useful for players?”

 

The focus on this update was the training. There’s a lot of issues with training smithing that we’ve tried to tackle, for example:

 

• The amount of junk smithing produces.

• The dependency on slow and tedious smelting.

• The lack of variety.

• The difficulty new players have at the start working with bronze (unless they use quests to skip it – but new players may not know this).

• Higher level smithing doesn’t really affect how good you are at smithing, but just gives you better choice over which rates of experience to cost you can choose.

 

Say we didn’t at least partly deal with these issues now, if rewards come out that made high level smithing more worthwhile, some of these issues would be magnified. For example, the price of bar prices would rise a lot higher as not only would high level smiths be paying people for their time to smith ore, they would also be paying for people’s time to smelt ore. Further; far more junk would enter the market which could outweigh the demand of alchers and force people to alch their own goods bringing more GPs into the economy.

 

We certainly don’t consider the cannons or the ceremonial swords as rewards for training smithing, but rather they are incentives to train in the workshop rather than at traditional anvils. Personally, I hope we do bring in incentives to train smithing at the higher levels. I think there’s plenty we can do with the skill, there are lots of good ideas in the forums and within the team. However, I’d like to point out that we are NOT PROMISING this update.

 

 

Why are the ceremonial sword costs so high? The ores required to make one bar is extortionate!”

 

The cost is high, however, you should need far fewer ingots per hour compared to any other activity. So for example if you made 40 iron ceremonial swords an hour getting an average of 105% XP (the quickest guy in the office could make roughly 50 per hour at around this percentage). You would be getting around 113k per hour and it will cost 3,000 iron ores. Normal iron plate smithing would offer around about 91k XP and use about 3600 iron bars. You would then have some iron plates to sell or alch, but this should still see iron ceremonial swords being better value. So while these prices may seem high at a glance, they are competitive.

 

 

Why is perfecting a ceremonial sword so hard at the initial levels of access to them? It's not worth making them at that level.”

 

We wanted to build in some advantage with having higher smithing levels whilst training, as generally in smithing price determines what you train. However, this is something I will be monitoring – it could be that we have been overly harsh on the lower level ceremonial sword makers.

 

 

Why does getting respect take so long?”

 

Respect wasn’t designed to be a reason for training, but rather is built to tempt people away from normal anvils. So it’s not meant to be a speedy process. The amount of respect you earn is roughly 1 respect for every 10,000 XP earned. However, fixing pipes and killing ancestors do provide a little boost to your respect.

 

 

Can we own multiple "blinged" cannons? A lot of players like to own 2 for a space holder, so the pieces aren't lost around their banks.”

 

Simply bring in the pieces to make 2 normal cannons and Elof should change them all for you.

[/hide]

 

So they are NOT PROMISING that anything will actually come of this, but this update was in preparation for maybe some day making smithing worthwhile if they get around to it. Never mind that the update is garbage, because some guy who can't do math thinks it's competitive.

 

Re-examing the XP/cost of adamant ceremonial swords using their figures:

 

40 swords per hour, average 105% score: 240k XP/hr, 11.4 GP/XP.

 

50 swords per hour, average 105% score: 300k XP/hr, 11.4 GP/XP.

 

My original figures for sword smithing: ~200k XP/hr, ~14 GP/XP

Adamant platebody smithing: ~255k XP/hr, ~10.8 GP/XP

Adamant platebody smithing, with SC hammers and a scroll of efficiency: ~197 XP/hr, ~5 GP/XP

(Platebody smithing figures courtesy of Grimy's spreadsheets)

 

It should be noted that to get the experience given by a 105% score you need to take the maximum experience for that sword type, in this case 6873, multiply by 5/6 to bring it from 120% back to 100%, and then multiply by 1.05. I am also assuming that their stated average of 105% score includes the 0% cases caused by breakages, or that perhaps with 99 smithing breakages no longer occur. If this is incorrect, then the rates based on their figures are too optimistic.

 

 

The 40 swords per hour rate would be roughly equivalent to standard adamant platebody smithing, although still much inferior to smithing using sacred clay hammers unless you have enormous piles of cash. The 50 swords per hour rate becomes at least more arguable; in comparison to sacred clay hammer smithing of adamant platebodies, you're trading an extra ~2.4M cash per hour in exchange for an extra 100k experience per hour. If you really do have that much money to spare, and can get that good, then it could be a good training method.

 

It could be that I'm actually not very good at the sword smithing, or that it really is possible to get ~50% better with more practice. I assume that Jagex's figures were produced by testing using a 99 smithing account; maybe this improves success rates a great deal. I'm skeptical however; I'm not the only one who found much worse rates than this. A thread on RSOF (QFC: 15-16-347-62513440) shows experience and cost rates almost identical to my originally posted figures.

 

In other words, this method of smithing might be more useful for the players spending billions to get 200M all skills, if they can also smith these swords 50% faster than the average semi-serious player. But if Jagex thought it would be better for the average player, they got their math very wrong.

 

Edit: they say the respect rewards mainly exist to incentivize players to use it instead of more traditional smithing. I'd be willing to at least give it a shot if they would allow sacred clay hammers to be used on ceremonial sword smithing. Whatever horrible imbalance they thought this would cause, I think examination of the math shows that it would merely give the new area a fighting chance in efficiency for the most skilled/fastest players.

[brunokiller]

Just wasted 20 minutes of my time dreaming up what should have been the smithing update. And here JaGeX had 2 years to think about it. I think my 20 minute thought process is better than their 2 year thought process.

making stuff overpowered is your idea of a good update?

 

you're almost as dumb as jagex lol

[Range_This11]

I wish they wouldn't have referred to this update as "The" Smithing update. If they would have been honest about what they were planning to update, they wouldn't have had the negative backlash from so many people. They implied pretty heavily this was going to be a BIG update that would cause quite a splash but instead all we got was a tiny pebble dropped in a bathtub.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Just wasted 20 minutes of my time dreaming up what should have been the smithing update. And here JaGeX had 2 years to think about it. I think my 20 minute thought process is better than their 2 year thought process.

making stuff overpowered is your idea of a good update?

 

you're almost as dumb as jagex lol

Lol I approve.

[Cheefoo]

Just wasted 20 minutes of my time dreaming up what should have been the smithing update. And here JaGeX had 2 years to think about it. I think my 20 minute thought process is better than their 2 year thought process.

making stuff overpowered is your idea of a good update?

 

you're almost as dumb as jagex lol

 

at level 99 smtihing u can make dragon items and the dragonite bars are rare drops from rune dragons that are level 700 and can kill u in one hit i fu dont have dragon flames shield

 

also u can make super rune platebodes using 50 rune bars (so u cant just make as maney as u want) that has defence thats really high is untradable , and increases your lifepoints (hitpoins lol dumb jagex) by 200

 

also you can make dragon items sharper and do more damage like 20% more and dragon spears hit fast as whip and special only use 10% (yes I have 20 of them in wait for this updarte!!!)

 

dicuss....

[Crossed_Body]

at level 99 smtihing u can make dragon items and the dragonite bars are rare drops from rune dragons that are level 700 and can kill u in one hit i fu dont have dragon flames shield

 

also u can make super rune platebodes using 50 rune bars (so u cant just make as maney as u want) that has defence thats really high is untradable , and increases your lifepoints (hitpoins lol dumb jagex) by 200

 

also you can make dragon items sharper and do more damage like 20% more and dragon spears hit fast as whip and special only use 10% (yes I have 20 of them in wait for this updarte!!!)

 

dicuss....

 

Something about how you type pisses me off.

[Cheefoo]

at level 99 smtihing u can make dragon items and the dragonite bars are rare drops from rune dragons that are level 700 and can kill u in one hit i fu dont have dragon flames shield

 

also u can make super rune platebodes using 50 rune bars (so u cant just make as maney as u want) that has defence thats really high is untradable , and increases your lifepoints (hitpoins lol dumb jagex) by 200

 

also you can make dragon items sharper and do more damage like 20% more and dragon spears hit fast as whip and special only use 10% (yes I have 20 of them in wait for this updarte!!!)

 

dicuss....

 

Something about how you type pisses me off.

 

Thanks, that's what I was trying for!

[essiw]

 

Ok so when I read this, it reads to me as an acknowledgement that:

(a) They DO now realize that they [bleep]ed this up; and

(b) They've no actual intention of doing ANYTHING about it.

 

Am I reading that wrong?

 

:unsure:

Yes you are reading (b) wrong, they have the intention to change it, but because they don't know if they can do it (or when) they just say that they won't promise us anything.

[SixFootOne]

 

Ok so when I read this, it reads to me as an acknowledgement that:

(a) They DO now realize that they [bleep]ed this up; and

(b) They've no actual intention of doing ANYTHING about it.

 

Am I reading that wrong?

 

:unsure:

Yes you are reading (b) wrong, they have the intention to change it, but because they don't know if they can do it (or when) they just say that they won't promise us anything.

 

Where are you getting they have any intention on changing it. To me, it looked as though they defended their updated, but said there were also good ideas on the forums and there is a ton more that they could do, and hope to do. Although they have no plans, and they are making no promises.

 

"Personally, I hope we do bring in incentives to train smithing at the higher levels. I think theres plenty we can do with the skill, there are lots of good ideas in the forums and within the team. However, Id like to point out that we are NOT PROMISING this update."

[Dire_Wolf]

 

But royal canno---------lol how ugly. Jagex and their fetish for gold colour (PoH, Trim armour, etc).

 

Oh gosh-the real world's fetish for gold colour-how ugly. Y'know, it's stupid because it reflects real life.

 

Personally I rather like the colours, but gold doesn't always look bad. For example, the imperial palace of Madrid is completely decked out with gold, marble, you name an expensive old thing and it's there. But it still looks amazing.

 

Jagex are only trying to imitate that. Personally I think the mixture of style with functionality works well, but maybe for you it's tacky?

I will say that Gold colour is not totally ugly. But the way Jagex been using Gold colour makes me puke. Instead of nice plant green decoration for your POH altar, Jagex releases Golden statues and icons (UGLY!).

 

Instead of Green (plants), red (Destruction), Black (Death) or Blue (Divine) themed decoration for house, Jagex choses gold.

 

Gold colour is ugly and shallow to me, it makes me puke. Seeing a Player in full Dragon armour "trimmed" is double puke. Ugly, Ugly and Ugly.

 

Point being: Jagex seems to think Gold is a great colour and just because it is a great colour, making a item to golden colour is a reward! A golden cannon! Wow! It's same deal just now it will blind your enemy! And make them puke if they are allergic to gold colour like i am.

 

Oh wait, i guess the golden cannon has a use. But to bad cannon can't be used when PK-ing because that's only way to fight me.

[PlzPuddngPlz]

Well, this is the second update in a row I could have easily made a ton of cash on, but missed out on.

Just yesterday, I gave up superheating 3.2k mith bars, and sold all of the materials.

Less than 8 hours later, I see this update on the front page. Herp derp.

 

That said, this could have been a great update if jaggyflax didn't insist on pioneering useless updates, instead of fixing broken ones.

[aspeeder]

I wish they wouldn't have referred to this update as "The" Smithing update. If they would have been honest about what they were planning to update, they wouldn't have had the negative backlash from so many people. They implied pretty heavily this was going to be a BIG update that would cause quite a splash but instead all we got was a tiny pebble dropped in a bathtub.

The problem is that this WAS their big smithing update that they apparently thought would revolutionize the skill. Have they not learned anything? We have had both well received and hated skill "revamps", you'd think from empirical evidence they'd know what we want <_<

[Helm_Lardar]

Oh, I don't know. I guess we have different tastes then. I fully agree that there shoudl be more updates for house decoration (my hosue looks a touch bland) but I still think the gold is better than nothing.And making an item gold is a reward because it shows wealth or time and effort.

 

What I really liked about the cannon was the shape of the recoiling top-peice. I thought that was neat, and the gold..hey, not amazing but it still looks good :) .

 

Why is dragon armour a puke? It's red, like you wanted for houses?

 

(really, puking? you wouldn't throw up over a game, it's not worth the effort).

[SixFootOne]

Oh, I don't know. I guess we have different tastes then. I fully agree that there shoudl be more updates for house decoration (my hosue looks a touch bland) but I still think the gold is better than nothing.And making an item gold is a reward because it shows wealth or time and effort.

 

What I really liked about the cannon was the shape of the recoiling top-peice. I thought that was neat, and the gold..hey, not amazing but it still looks good :) .

 

Why is dragon armour a puke? It's red, like you wanted for houses?

 

(really, puking? you wouldn't throw up over a game, it's not worth the effort).

 

Personally i love gold, and try to own every single item in game that has any slight variation of gold or yellow. But this thing is just ugly in my opinion. It's a disgrace to everything gold :thumbdown: