The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[IridiumBunny]

If I put my armor on with full health, I should have full health when I have all my armor put on. I don't want to waste all my food by putting on armor. That is absolutely idiotic.

 

The alternative is a cantankerous healing out of combat system asking to be abused. Besides, isn't there a constitution ability to heal with?

 

Most people are suggesting (and I agree) that if you are out of combat for twenty seconds or so, they should maintain the % of life points you have. So if I am 25/50, putting on armour gives me 2500/5000, taking off puts me back at 25/50. This seems reasonable enough to me - how would someone abuse it?

 

The only way I could see would be to get out of combat for the specified time (between boss kills, around a corner in fight caves or generally running from your enemy) then take off armor, eat a rocktail which boosts you to 990 lifepoints (100%) and put on armor giving you in your case, rocktails that heal 5000 lifepoints. Extending the timer would make it only useful at banks where it's not really a big deal.

 

Not that I think it's a bad idea per se, I just don't think it's worth the hassle, just eat those 5 rocktails before you go bossing.

 

Ah, that makes sense I suppose. For some reason I thought food healing was also proportional to lifepoints (healing set % of health) but looking back now I see this is not the case.

[Blutters]

If I put my armor on with full health, I should have full health when I have all my armor put on. I don't want to waste all my food by putting on armor. That is absolutely idiotic.

 

The alternative is a cantankerous healing out of combat system asking to be abused. Besides, isn't there a constitution ability to heal with?

 

Most people are suggesting (and I agree) that if you are out of combat for twenty seconds or so, they should maintain the % of life points you have. So if I am 25/50, putting on armour gives me 2500/5000, taking off puts me back at 25/50. This seems reasonable enough to me - how would someone abuse it?

 

The only way I could see would be to get out of combat for the specified time (between boss kills, around a corner in fight caves or generally running from your enemy) then take off armor, eat a rocktail which boosts you to 990 lifepoints (100%) and put on armor giving you in your case, rocktails that heal 5000 lifepoints. Extending the timer would make it only useful at banks where it's not really a big deal.

 

Not that I think it's a bad idea per se, I just don't think it's worth the hassle, just eat those 5 rocktails before you go bossing.

 

Ah, that makes sense I suppose. For some reason I thought food healing was also proportional to lifepoints (healing set % of health) but looking back now I see this is not the case.

An automatic healing system is needed for other places too though. Dungeoneering and Hybrid armor come to mind, since your armor in DG is equipped when you start the dungeon and Hybrid doesn't gain stats until you're actually in the minigame.

It's obviously a design flaw; just saying "eat 5 rocktails" doesn't cut it.

[NukeMarine]

If I put my armor on with full health, I should have full health when I have all my armor put on. I don't want to waste all my food by putting on armor. That is absolutely idiotic.

 

The alternative is a cantankerous healing out of combat system asking to be abused. Besides, isn't there a constitution ability to heal with?

 

Most people are suggesting (and I agree) that if you are out of combat for twenty seconds or so, they should maintain the % of life points you have. So if I am 25/50, putting on armour gives me 2500/5000, taking off puts me back at 25/50. This seems reasonable enough to me - how would someone abuse it?

 

The only way I could see would be to get out of combat for the specified time (between boss kills, around a corner in fight caves or generally running from your enemy) then take off armor, eat a rocktail which boosts you to 990 lifepoints (100%) and put on armor giving you in your case, rocktails that heal 5000 lifepoints. Extending the timer would make it only useful at banks where it's not really a big deal.

 

Not that I think it's a bad idea per se, I just don't think it's worth the hassle, just eat those 5 rocktails before you go bossing.

 

Ah, that makes sense I suppose. For some reason I thought food healing was also proportional to lifepoints (healing set % of health) but looking back now I see this is not the case.

An automatic healing system is needed for other places too though. Dungeoneering and Hybrid armor come to mind, since your armor in DG is equipped when you start the dungeon and Hybrid doesn't gain stats until you're actually in the minigame.

It's obviously a design flaw; just saying "eat 5 rocktails" doesn't cut it.

One solution can be for areas that have recharge posts (prayer, summoning, energy) can also recharge life points. Those points are common enough that it should be a fair compromise. To be honest, this can be a good time for Jagex to merge all those recharge posts into one, or at the very least merge those recharge stations that are reasonably close together.

 

Another option (and can be in addition to the one above) is let the boosted life points slowly decay unless the player enters combat or takes damage in some way.

 

Note: I'm not in beta, so I'm only going off what I've read or seen on vids.

[Estoc]

It's obviously a design flaw; just saying "eat 5 rocktails" doesn't cut it.

 

The problem is that as far as the game is concerned, armor only makes you "healthier" instead of giving you some kind of bulwark beast like armor bar. Obviously eating food shouldn't be required to earn your armor rating back (which is what any lifepoints beyond 990 function as), but until the protection afforded to you by armor and your natural 990 lifepoints are separated, I don't see a way of fixing it without it being abused to heal yourself.

 

Minigames of course are a totally different story as things like Dungeoneering and Soulwars already heal you upon entering, it's just a matter of Jagex getting around to implementing it with regards to equipment worn when you enter.

[Blutters]

Actually, that's a very good point. Why didn't they just separate them? Or have armor boost some pseudo-LP stat... Although I suppose I could see both those avenues getting quite complicated.

[Estoc]

Actually, that's a very good point. Why didn't they just separate them? Or have armor boost some pseudo-LP stat... Although I suppose I could see both those avenues getting quite complicated.

 

Any progress you make getting armor to be more realistic takes you one step closer to being a long boring tank test ending in a short, violent death. After all, the main reason gladiators wore armor only on the shield arm for example was to strike a balance between a long fight and an exciting one, which I think Jagex is trying to do here.

[Den]

All they really need to do to fix the low lifepoint issue when using armor is:

 

If you open your bank, your lifepoints are filled all the way up.

If you start a dungeon, you start with full lifepoints.

If playing a minigame, you are fully healed once the minigame starts.

 

This removes the overpowered issues while also fixing the problem.

[Urza285]

All they really need to do to fix the low lifepoint issue when using armor is:

 

If you open your bank, your lifepoints are filled all the way up.

If you start a dungeon, you start with full lifepoints.

If playing a minigame, you are fully healed once the minigame starts.

 

This removes the overpowered issues while also fixing the problem.

PVPers would whine about not getting a kill then. I think you made a good idea, but yeah just calling the argument ahead of time.

[michel555555]

is it possible to go to barbarian assault in beta? Has anyone tried out ancients and abilities there to see if they work now?

[Zerker_Jane]

Is anyone able to tell me the stats of royal dragonhide? Is it the equivalent of black d'hide?

[Saradomin_Mage]

Black d'hide body: 960 armour, 2160LP

Black d'hide chaps: 720 armour, 1620LP

Black d'hide vambs: 240 armour, 270LP

 

Royal d'hide body: 1040 armour, 2340LP

Royal d'hide chaps: 780 armour, 1755LP

Royal d'hide vambs: 260 armour, 292LP

 

Karil's leathertop: 1120 armour, 2520LP

Karil's leatherskirt: 840 armour, 1890LP

 

Armadyl same stats as Karil's

[Ruinous Edge]

Black d'hide body: 960 armour, 2160LP

Black d'hide chaps: 720 armour, 1620LP

Black d'hide vambs: 240 armour, 270LP

 

Royal d'hide body: 1040 armour, 2340LP

Royal d'hide chaps: 780 armour, 1755LP

Royal d'hide vambs: 260 armour, 292LP

 

Karil's leathertop: 1120 armour, 2520LP

Karil's leatherskirt: 840 armour, 1890LP

 

Armadyl same stats as Karil's

Hmm so it seems royal d'hide for now just keeps it place between black and arma/karils..a less costlier non-degradable barrows alternate then? Still edged out in LP boost though, but defensively a good alt. although this depends how good/easy to obtain armadyl buckler/boots etc are i'm guessing. Still viable for lower def/welfare gear

[Saradomin_Mage]

Figured I might as well post this too, which kind of explains how armour works.

There are no hidden stats on armour, the difference between armours is their class type. The amount of armour that is contributed towards different attack styles is based on the class of the armour according to the combat triangle.

Example: If you wear some melee armour then all the armour value is taken into account when defending against ranged attacks. When defending against melee attacks most of the armour value is used. When defending against magic attacks only a small portion of the armour value is used.

 

As for hybridding, any helmet, torso, legs or shield you wear will lower your accuracy with attacks from the other classes. Other equipment such as gloves and boots do not lower your accuracy.

Example: If you wear any melee armour stated above your accuracy with melee attacks will be unaffected, however your accuracy with ranged attacks will be lowered slightly and your accuracy with magic attacks will be lowered greatly.

 

Virtus, Pernix and Torva all have the same armour values but they are of each class. So Torva will still protect you more against ranged but less against magic.

Virtus will protect more against melee but less against ranged.

Pernix will defend more against magic but less against melee.

 

If you check your worn interface there is a last target simulator that should tell you your hit chance and defend chance against a certain mob. These will update as you change gear so you can see what effects different equipment will have.

[qfc]299-300-391-63828193[/qfc]

 

Prayer bonus has also been returned to beta equipment screen, not sure if it's on items yet though.

[Alg]

A majority of the people 'testing' the beta are just abusing a bug to get rares.

 

Nice to know I was denied a spot so that people could use the beta to play out their bug abusing fantasies.

I really hope that they remove their beta access or something. The whole thing seems to be proof that the RS community can't handle a beta: out of 50,000 and however many players with 12 months of membership there are, it seems like less than 500 are interested in actually testing things, and the rest went straight to gambling and duplicating rares.

 

Even worse are the players that go "this sucks because it's obviously incomplete". :wall:

[Sy_Accursed]

A majority of the people 'testing' the beta are just abusing a bug to get rares.

 

Nice to know I was denied a spot so that people could use the beta to play out their bug abusing fantasies.

I really hope that they remove their beta access or something. The whole thing seems to be proof that the RS community can't handle a beta: out of 50,000 and however many players with 12 months of membership there are, it seems like less than 500 are interested in actually testing things, and the rest went straight to gambling and duplicating rares.

 

Even worse are the players that go "this sucks because it's obviously incomplete". :wall:

 

It's hardly a bug that's duping rares and does it frigging matter?

People are just having fun with it and all these duped items will disappear when the beta goes as they are stuck on thoose servers.

[Alg]

It's hardly a bug that's duping rares and does it frigging matter?

People are just having fun with it and all these duped items will disappear when the beta goes as they are stuck on thoose servers.

Yes, it matters. It's the combat system that we're going to be stuck with in a few months, and as mentioned previously, the people duping rares and gambling are taking spots that could have been filled by players that actually care.

 

Really, the fact that there's a beta at all is a surprising step forward on Jagex's part, and the community seems intent on proving that it doesn't deserve to have chances like that.

[Ambler]

I've had people complaining that I duped my charms and summoning supplies, but I want to test a yak/titan. :lol:

Also trimming my hp cape in beta. :sad:

[SixFootOne]

It's hardly a bug that's duping rares and does it frigging matter?

People are just having fun with it and all these duped items will disappear when the beta goes as they are stuck on thoose servers.

Yes, it matters. It's the combat system that we're going to be stuck with in a few months, and as mentioned previously, the people duping rares and gambling are taking spots that could have been filled by players that actually care.

 

Really, the fact that there's a beta at all is a surprising step forward on Jagex's part, and the community seems intent on proving that it doesn't deserve to have chances like that.

 

After testing beta for a few days/hours, it loses it's novelty and you get bored with it. It doesn't take long to test the bosses/monsters/equipment. You digested everything and you get pretty bored. I understand how you could be mad people are wasting a slot not testing combat. But in all honestly there isn't that much to do. And when I consider none of this matters, I lose all desire to after getting more than a few kills or any boss or monster. I have spent plenty of time in the duel arena and wildy screwing around, but that novelty doesn't last long. I think if jagex were to allow players to give up their spot, plenty would.

 

Edit: In case people are wonder how many players are currently playing beta. This is a screen shot of current players online at 12 P.M. U.S. central time.

 

 

 

 

1625 people testing beta :grin:. So yeah don't be mad at the people trying to get partyhats, at least those people are online

[Leon S]

1625 out of the 50,000 people + everyone who was allowed in automatically... and here I am, wondering why I can't test the beta and provide some constructive feedback on Magic.

[SixFootOne]

1625 out of the 50,000 people + everyone who was allowed in automatically... and here I am, wondering why I can't test the beta and provide some constructive feedback on Magic.

 

Now take that number and cut it in half to account for people just standing around. Now maybe we have an accurate number of people testing beta. If I could give you my beta access I would. Funny looking at my friendslist and all the ones who tested beta on day one compared to now. I used to have about 10 or so friends who got in beta. I haven't seen one test it since Wednesday.

[Estoc]

They might as well play the "Jagex cares about their players" card and let everyone in then. Assuming the world that has 755 people is filled with gamblers we have about 1,000/50,000 players (not counting people who got in automatically) testing the update...it hasn't even been a week yet.

[Patr1ck]

Part of the problem is, Jagex really gave no incentive to go out of our way and test training, skills, and slayer. So the beta is just a novelty and "preview" to most people.

[SixFootOne]

Part of the problem is, Jagex really gave no incentive to go out of our way and test training, skills, and slayer. So the beta is just a novelty and "preview" to most people.

 

Exactly, when one thing this made me realize is how much work runescape is. Novelty doesn't get a player very far. Anything after that is truly work. I work enough, i don't need to do it in my games. At least in real rs i can justify it by non existent items and achievements, fun social interactions and conversations. The beta testing is literally getting me nowhere. I am not getting paid to do it, I get no rs experience, items, achievements, and to top it all off its' not fun after a short period of time.

[Leon S]

1625 out of the 50,000 people + everyone who was allowed in automatically... and here I am, wondering why I can't test the beta and provide some constructive feedback on Magic.

 

Now take that number and cut it in half to account for people just standing around. Now maybe we have an accurate number of people testing beta. If I could give you my beta access I would. Funny looking at my friendslist and all the ones who tested beta on day one compared to now. I used to have about 10 or so friends who got in beta. I haven't seen one test it since Wednesday.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is really annoying me. They're denying access to a lot of people who want to test the content, but they're allowing access to people who gamble on a beta server where all your items will just be deleted at the end? What the hell is going on in Jagex's mind?

[SixFootOne]

1625 out of the 50,000 people + everyone who was allowed in automatically... and here I am, wondering why I can't test the beta and provide some constructive feedback on Magic.

 

Now take that number and cut it in half to account for people just standing around. Now maybe we have an accurate number of people testing beta. If I could give you my beta access I would. Funny looking at my friendslist and all the ones who tested beta on day one compared to now. I used to have about 10 or so friends who got in beta. I haven't seen one test it since Wednesday.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is really annoying me. They're denying access to a lot of people who want to test the content, but they're allowing access to people who gamble on a beta server where all your items will just be deleted at the end? What the hell is going on in Jagex's mind?

 

If you look at my previous posts they are dealing with it the next update. And I understand. Trying to find someone to actually do something with in beta without already knowing them is annoying when half of them are begging for partyhats the other half are gambling. And if it means anything. Those people wanted to test combat too. They did, until they got bored, and started to gamble. I will be honest, I want to run around and try to make fake billions too. Trust me, it gets boring REALLY fast when you are gaining nothing. There is a reason people get paid to do this.