The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Alg]

My biggest thing about beta is, godswords are almost useless along with claws. and dungeoneering seems to take a solid amount longer and youll need to smith armour to survive now.

That seems to just be because of free chaotic mauls. Once the combat update actually comes out, I can see them being a decent alternative for people that don't have one.

[Ambler]

I don't know how, but I used virtus (wand & book) casting bloodfire barrage, and utterly decimaed about 5 people before I forgot to eat and died. :lol:

Might just be my choice of abilities, but mage seems to wreck anyone, rangers included :unsure:

[SixFootOne]

So are mage and ranged actually viable alternatives to melee combat now? And is mage combat a viable training method compared to alching/superheat/string/etc.?

-mage is pretty strong now best coupled with barrages,fire surge, or storm or armadyl and it kills meleers pretty efficiently, range destroys mages and it acutally decent against melee (when theyre dual wielding instead of using a shield).

-mage combat seems to be getting faster and cheaper ( fire surge only uses fire and air runes) but i am not sure how the xp works in this beta or how it will work when it is released so thats not for sure.

 

 

My biggest thing about beta is, godswords are almost useless along with claws. and dungeoneering seems to take a solid amount longer and youll need to smith armour to survive now.

 

 

 

 

also so far in beta what is the best dual wield? cls's, rapiers, or some mixture of them?

 

 

I wouldn't say godswords are useless, I won quite a few fights with them against people. Although duel wielding and properly using abilities seems to beat out a 2h weapon. It would be nice to give each godsword a little something else. Maybe someone similar to barrows set effects where they randomly kick in.

[Zerker_Jane]

How do you stop the writing from the action bar taking up half the screen when you hover the mouse icon over it?

 

And is there any way to talk without having to press enter first? That's the stupidest update I've ever seen, including the SOF.

[SixFootOne]

How do you stop the writing from the action bar taking up half he screen when you hover the mouse icon over it?

 

And is there any way to talk without having to press enter first? That's the stupidest update I've ever seen, including the SOF.

 

Well you can click in the chat box first <_< . Yeah i hope they change that

[Hedgehog]

Mage/range really aren't alternatives to anything. You're forced to use a specific style against most monsters, otherwise your dps will be pretty much 0.

[Riqualyn]

Mage/range really aren't alternatives to anything. You're forced to use a specific style against most monsters, otherwise your dps will be pretty much 0.

 

And on those monsters is the mage/range damage comparable to what you would do to other things with melee?

[Sir_Squab]

Yeah. They need to fix that imo - giving monsters weaknesses so that melee the best answer 90% of the time (should only be 33% of the time) is good, but they took it too far. Imo, you shouldn't be FOCED to multi class in RS. Mage, melee and range should be effective on all non-boss monters imo. One of them being clearly superior is better, but all 3 combat styles should be viable against like 90% of RS monsters...

 

And chat ofc needs to be fixed.

[Hedgehog]

Mage/range really aren't alternatives to anything. You're forced to use a specific style against most monsters, otherwise your dps will be pretty much 0.

 

And on those monsters is the mage/range damage comparable to what you would do to other things with melee?

I haven't done enough testing to properly answer that, but I assume it'll be close by the time the update goes live.

 

But my point is, that's not how you balance the combat triangle. You don't force someone to mage if they'd rather train melee. They need to make it so range/mage/melee have roughly equal dps against most monsters.

 

Also, the default hotkeys should be f1-f12 so the keyboard can be freed up.

[Vezon Dash]

This seems like an opportunity to quit the game. Hopefully it won't be, but it might just turn out that way.

[Peronix]

Also, the default hotkeys should be f1-f12 so the keyboard can be freed up.

 

Either that or let us bind keys to stuff. Making everyone press enter to chat kind of seems like a waste if we can't even use the rest of our keyboard...

[Randox]

I too feel they might have gone a bit overboard on the specializing. If they want to even up the styles monsters use, then power too them, but ideally people should be able to get through most of the everyday pvm and slaying with any of the 3 styles, rather than need to bring not only the exact style, but the exact sub style (element, melee weapon) that can do damage. I sort of liked being able to use a whip for just about anything, and I would rather see mages and rangers have that kind of freedom rather than taking it away from everyone. I am not looking forward to a future where I can't use the comabt style I put time into and enjoy.

[Salad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H36RjXgypIM

 

Hitting 10000s and shit.

[Aneron]

so claws are 100% useless?

[Sy_Accursed]

I too think the weaknesses need balancing, I think it woud make sense to do something like:

 

1x = normal damage on the monster

0.8x = damage with the 'wrong' class (eg melee on mage)

1.1x = damage when using the right class but not the exact weakness

1.25x = damage when using the weakness

 

So for example the fire cave creatures being mostly weak to water mage you'd get:

Meleeing them = normal damage

Ranging them = 0.8x damage

Using air earth or fire mage = 1.1x damage

Using water mage = 1.25x damage

 

Or they could apply it more so to xp than to damage or something.

[Lord Paul]

Sounds like a great idea, Sy. :thumbup:

As it currently stands, the system sucks ass.

[Hedgehog]

I think most (specifically slayer) monsters should have low defense and style shouldn't matter too much. Melee, range, and mage should be equally effective against almost every task, but you can force someone to use a specific style by making armor weak to the opposite class.

 

For example, ranging armor would have high mage defense and high melee/mage penalties, so when you fight a monster that mages, you kinda have to range, but the option is still there to melee and use more food/prayer.

[xSxqPowerx]

Yeah. They say that they have fixed the triangle and brought magic and range up to the level where they're on par with melee, allowing you to choose whatever class you want to play as... instead, you have to max all combat skills anyway, unless you only want to be able to fight a small portion of monsters effectively.

[Cheefoo]

I just did about 5600 damage with a Dharok auto using that "berserk" (forget the exact name) ultimate against a greater demon. That ability boosts your damage by 100% but you take 100% more damage... Now imagine in PvP if BOTH players activate berserk! They'd be hitting each other for 4x damage! Holy shit, someone needs to try for a one hit kill in the duel arena!

[Nobody]

Do goliaths gloves still work in the beta tho? As in, do they still count as powerful crush weapon? What, if any abilities can you use with them?

 

@ Above: you have no reason to think pernix boots, armadyl buckler, etc, will be SoF reward. I mean, maybe they'll be available there like quite a bit of other high level gear, but it won't be the only source.

 

Basically, you sound like that you're (at best) indifferent to pvp. Most of your anger seems to be that you think Jagex will screw over slayer with this update. Keep in mind what SS with the ults can do, not to mention that you can probably last in a lot of places indefinitely with a shield ult. It really seems to early to say, especially since this IS a beta, something I don't think a lot of players remember lol.

 

Also, spirit shields are being redone. Depending on what they do with them, removing prayer reqs could make sense.

 

From what I can tell they don't count as a weapon and offer no boost to offense. You can use 1 handed abilities with them though but not 2-handed abilities.

[Quyneax]

Imo they should:

Remove penalties on hybriding, because hybriding is the funnest, most interesting way of dealing with a combat triangle.

Increase the damage of base attacks to be about 60% of your overall dps (consider that special attacks make up maybe 2-3% of your dps, that's still a massive change).

Reduce the lp boost from armour to about 4000 max, so your hp makes up about 20% of your total lp pool.

Reduce the weaknesses and make them less one-sided and ridiculous. For example, black dragons are weak to arrows. But they should also be weak to stab and the equivalent magic (and bolts too probably, since they aren't different from arrows).

Edit: possibly re-introduce alternative attack styles (one per weapon). However this would be a problem for ranged weapons, as they typically fire only one kind of ammo (the distinction between arrows/bolts is pretty stupid).

[Riqualyn]

Also, the default hotkeys should be f1-f12 so the keyboard can be freed up.

 

Either that or let us bind keys to stuff. Making everyone press enter to chat kind of seems like a waste if we can't even use the rest of our keyboard...

 

 

This is one of those things that will seem annoying at first but will quickly become second nature. I'm having the reverse problem coming back to RS, I keep hitting enter to start chatting. So every time I go to talk I'm yelling random quick chat lines.

[The Runar]

I tried the fight cave. I didn't get to Jad (wasn't even trying, just wanted to see the weaknesses).

 

Anyway, the other monsters:

 

Tz-Kih: level 122, weakness water

Tz-Kek: level 124, weakness water

Tok-Xil: level 126, weakness slash

Yt-MejKot: level 128, weakness water

Ket-Zek: level 130, weakness arrows

 

I think it's a bit slower than before (Kihs and Keks are slower to kill than before, Xils and MejKots about the same, Zeks faster), but much easier. I could kill Ket-Zeks easily without prayer and with 80 mage and 73 def. I used water wave all the time because I didn't know the weaknesses.

 

I'm going to try Jad later, probably tomorrow.

[Zerker_Jane]

Is there any difference between melee/mage armour? Like they both only have armour bonus and life points bonus. Do they actually defend against things differently or are they the same with different bonuses?

[jayc3399]

The problem with a change like this is that anyone with a reasonable amount of levels is going to have a huge learning cure and likely not like it. Its the same reason that when your trying to get someone to try out wow you don't let them play on your maxed character you get them a level one and get abilities as you go.