12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[Kalafai]

Anyone else finding it a tad bit annoying to get 5... FIVE adventurer log entries for a single level of dungeoneering?

 

the last three floors each gave me:

 

Defeated a boss!

Found a page!

Level up!

New floor unlocked!

All skills now!

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Anyone else finding it a tad bit annoying to get 5... FIVE adventurer log entries for a single level of dungeoneering?

 

the last three floors each gave me:

 

Defeated a boss!

Found a page!

Level up!

New floor unlocked!

All skills now!

yeaap *points to siggy*

[bedman]

Is teaming with random people in w2 better than soloing? Today I had quite a bad experience with the people as I spent over 2 hours to earn a massive 30k exp because the idiots wouldn't give me food so I died twice. I can solo in around 8 minutes earning 35k exp per hour.

I've been soloing from lv16-44. The random people are normally very uncooperative and all they care about is picking up drops. So even if in a perfect theoretical way teams earn faster xp, I'm sure soloing is faster and more enjoyable, unless you know your team.

I solod from 1 to 60 doing one dungeon in around 20 mins, getting like 12k xp an hour max. After that i resorted to RSOF 5:5 large dungeons and got ~35k per dungeon in ~1 hour 15 mins with much less work. This skill is defenitely team based and soloing is ridiculously undervalued. The teams on RSOF are always very well led and i have yet to be frustrated after doing around 12 5:5-s.

 

By the way, why isn't primal warhammer mentioned at all? it's more accurate and a bit less powerful than the spear, but you do have the luxury of wering a kite. Also, spears are rubbish against plate bodied monsters.

Cause making a kite is a waste of time.

[Mecakoto]

Is teaming with random people in w2 better than soloing? Today I had quite a bad experience with the people as I spent over 2 hours to earn a massive 30k exp because the idiots wouldn't give me food so I died twice. I can solo in around 8 minutes earning 35k exp per hour.

I've been soloing from lv16-44. The random people are normally very uncooperative and all they care about is picking up drops. So even if in a perfect theoretical way teams earn faster xp, I'm sure soloing is faster and more enjoyable, unless you know your team.

I solod from 1 to 60 doing one dungeon in around 20 mins, getting like 12k xp an hour max. After that i resorted to RSOF 5:5 large dungeons and got ~35k per dungeon in ~1 hour 15 mins with much less work. This skill is defenitely team based and soloing is ridiculously undervalued. The teams on RSOF are always very well led and i have yet to be frustrated after doing around 12 5:5-s.

 

By the way, why isn't primal warhammer mentioned at all? it's more accurate and a bit less powerful than the spear, but you do have the luxury of wering a kite. Also, spears are rubbish against plate bodied monsters.

Cause making a kite is a waste of time.

 

It is less of a waste of time and more of a waste of resources. That Kite could have equiled Platelegs or a Plateskirt. (because some bosses favor crush) Maybe a Helm and a half since no one binds helms. It could even become a spear to replace that war hammer if you alch the hammer for the 100k required for the ore from the smuggler.

[xpx]

Is teaming with random people in w2 better than soloing? Today I had quite a bad experience with the people as I spent over 2 hours to earn a massive 30k exp because the idiots wouldn't give me food so I died twice. I can solo in around 8 minutes earning 35k exp per hour.

I've been soloing from lv16-44. The random people are normally very uncooperative and all they care about is picking up drops. So even if in a perfect theoretical way teams earn faster xp, I'm sure soloing is faster and more enjoyable, unless you know your team.

I solod from 1 to 60 doing one dungeon in around 20 mins, getting like 12k xp an hour max. After that i resorted to RSOF 5:5 large dungeons and got ~35k per dungeon in ~1 hour 15 mins with much less work. This skill is defenitely team based and soloing is ridiculously undervalued. The teams on RSOF are always very well led and i have yet to be frustrated after doing around 12 5:5-s.

 

By the way, why isn't primal warhammer mentioned at all? it's more accurate and a bit less powerful than the spear, but you do have the luxury of wering a kite. Also, spears are rubbish against plate bodied monsters.

Cause making a kite is a waste of time.

 

It is less of a waste of time and more of a waste of resources. That Kite could have equiled Platelegs or a Plateskirt. (because some bosses favor crush) Maybe a Helm and a half since no one binds helms. It could even become a spear to replace that war hammer if you alch the hammer for the 100k required for the ore from the smuggler.

I don't really understand how the luxury of doing something can be a waste of time or resorces. While using the warhammer you have aproxximly the same melee capability avaivable to you, but, if you choose to do so, you can wear a shield. And as far as i know, you can only wear a fianite number of platlegs(or skirts, for that matter) at a time, so a kite is rather a first alternative to helmet+boots/gloves, which i think it is better and a second alternative to the stab attack of the spear, which, again, i think it is better. Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

[BeNiceOk]

Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

 

Ah but they just may be!

 

In general 4:3, 3:2, and 2:1 (6 Complexity ofc) small map are pretty close if not better xp per hour than a 5:5 Large. The reason for this is, they do not require armor at all. A couple of telports for the team, and a super melee pot when you can buy the seed finishes games extremely fast with highly decent xp.

 

Also with the smaller maps if someone leaves, its no big deal. On a large map if someone leaves 1/4 or 1/2 way through, your SOL. With less people on the map on a 5:5 the chance of death is much higher which brings me to my next point...

 

The big kicker is death. Even on a good team, on a large 5:5 map there is the chance of death. If you have 4 or less because people leave it becomes increasingly riskier. 2 shades and a 100+ brute will wreck you. On a small map the chance for death is dramatically lower, so you have little chance to get any penalties. This alone can make smaller maps quicker than the 5:5 large since your not getting a -8% or more for your xp/hr.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

 

Ah but they just may be!

 

In general 4:3, 3:2, and 2:1 (6 Complexity ofc) small map are pretty close if not better xp per hour than a 5:5 Large. The reason for this is, they do not require armor at all. A couple of telports for the team, and a super melee pot when you can buy the seed finishes games extremely fast with highly decent xp.

 

Also with the smaller maps if someone leaves, its no big deal. On a large map if someone leaves 1/4 or 1/2 way through, your SOL. With less people on the map on a 5:5 the chance of death is much higher which brings me to my next point...

 

The big kicker is death. Even on a good team, on a large 5:5 map there is the chance of death. If you have 4 or less because people leave it becomes increasingly riskier. 2 shades and a 100+ brute will wreck you. On a small map the chance for death is dramatically lower, so you have little chance to get any penalties. This alone can make smaller maps quicker than the 5:5 large since your not getting a -8% or more for your xp/hr.

what's the xp for a map of 5:4

on say 35 prestige floor 35 for example?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

I don't really understand how the luxury of doing something can be a waste of time or resorces. While using the warhammer you have aproxximly the same melee capability avaivable to you, but, if you choose to do so, you can wear a shield. And as far as i know, you can only wear a fianite number of platlegs(or skirts, for that matter) at a time, so a kite is rather a first alternative to helmet+boots/gloves, which i think it is better and a second alternative to the stab attack of the spear, which, again, i think it is better. Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

 

The reason the spear is good is for what you are talking about: luxury.

 

You can stab, slash, and crush with a spear. You can only crush with a warhammer. All of the other weapons are missing a style. Some have stab and slash with no crush, which would make it hard to kill plate-wearing warriors. Some have slash and crush with no stab, witch makes it hard to kill some of the many things that seem to be weak to stab.

 

If you just have a warhammer as your bound weapon, you are wasting time.

 

The warhammer is a specialty weapon that you can make if you have the extra ores. If you see you will be fighting a boss weak to crush, and youd like to have some extra defence, make a warhammer and a kite.

[Golvellius]

90+ armour wearing forgotten warriors should always be maged.

You'll spend like 3+ minutes trying to out melee them nomatter what you have.

You can cast air surge in plate body /legs or leather gear and hit them almost every time.

I mage alot in dungeons yet I never wear mage robes. :wink:

[Soma2035]

Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

 

Ah but they just may be!

 

In general 4:3, 3:2, and 2:1 (6 Complexity ofc) small map are pretty close if not better xp per hour than a 5:5 Large. The reason for this is, they do not require armor at all. A couple of telports for the team, and a super melee pot when you can buy the seed finishes games extremely fast with highly decent xp.

 

Also with the smaller maps if someone leaves, its no big deal. On a large map if someone leaves 1/4 or 1/2 way through, your SOL. With less people on the map on a 5:5 the chance of death is much higher which brings me to my next point...

 

The big kicker is death. Even on a good team, on a large 5:5 map there is the chance of death. If you have 4 or less because people leave it becomes increasingly riskier. 2 shades and a 100+ brute will wreck you. On a small map the chance for death is dramatically lower, so you have little chance to get any penalties. This alone can make smaller maps quicker than the 5:5 large since your not getting a -8% or more for your xp/hr.

 

I've played several 5:5 games and I've never died. In fact, I've died more frequently in 3:3 and 3:2 games than in 5:5 games. 2 shades and a 100+ brute are laughable at best, you can easily tank the shades while using prayers against the brute, who goes down in seconds to magic. The biggest actual threats to good players are Monolith rooms (which occasionally spawn 3-4 several high level shades at once) and a combination of high level forgotten rangers and mages. Even these are manageable if you recognize how dangerous they are beforehand and work as a team.

 

Most bosses are relatively harmless, although the Bulwark Beast has a nasty tendency to trample a player if someone's attacking from a distance as well as hitting him with lightning, and the Shadow-Gazer can sometimes pull off a really nasty combo with its acid rain, reminiscent of the Corporeal Beast's white claw spell. These are threats on any difficulty, though.

 

Level 31 was worth 42K experience for me. If your team actually cares about how fast you're going through the dungeon, you can do this in 40-50 minutes easily, which is ~56K per hour. How much experience do you get playing 2:1 on this floor? From experience, 3:3 yields a little less than half the experience of 5:5 (the modifiers on the score screen are misleading, because the floor and prestige scores are heavily impacted by the modifiers with exception of death before the modifiers are applied a second time). If this ratio holds true, playing 2:1 would yield perhaps a fifth of the experience per floor. That's 8K experience per run. At about 8 minutes per full run. that's only ~60K per hour, which isn't really that much higher.

 

The rates really feel about the same (I've personally played 3:3, 3:2, 3:1, and 5:5), so it comes down to how you'd like to play. However, my guess is that the actual "best" rates are drawn from rushing through some floors, and playing the highest floors with large teams. Since the XP rate is higher on deeper floors, it makes sense to prolong these floors while shortening earlier floors.

[qeltar]

Also with the smaller maps if someone leaves, its no big deal. On a large map if someone leaves 1/4 or 1/2 way through, your SOL. With less people on the map on a 5:5 the chance of death is much higher which brings me to my next point...

 

The big kicker is death. Even on a good team, on a large 5:5 map there is the chance of death. If you have 4 or less because people leave it becomes increasingly riskier. 2 shades and a 100+ brute will wreck you. On a small map the chance for death is dramatically lower, so you have little chance to get any penalties. This alone can make smaller maps quicker than the 5:5 large since your not getting a -8% or more for your xp/hr.

These are valid points not often made.

 

Everyone loves to cherry pick those big 5:5 XP reward screens and paste them on forums. But they don't talk about all of the messed up floors, and ones where people leave, or bosses that KO one player leading to a cascade effect, and so on.

 

People who like big maps also don't talk much about the time required to contact players, arrange times to play, coordinate things and so forth. Even when you have a group of friends you like playing with, it's common to run into scheduling issues, this one has to go have dinner, that one has an appointment, etc.

 

I don't deny that playing in a group is faster. But I don't think it's as much faster as some people portray it to be. And even though I primarily solo, I think team play *should* give more XP, to compensate for the annoyance factor.

[Nhs_Xc]

Is there an XP cut for playing on Free worlds? I got to 35 in f2p, then got members and the monsters are a lot harder. I was pretty much able to just use my binded weapon to clear all the floors and most of the bosses without picking up anything (including food). Now on p2p it seems like food and armor are a must.

[Zepheras]

Is there an XP cut for playing on Free worlds? I got to 35 in f2p, then got members and the monsters are a lot harder. I was pretty much able to just use my binded weapon to clear all the floors and most of the bosses without picking up anything (including food). Now on p2p it seems like food and armor are a must.

 

Yes, F2P combat levels above 90 gets an automated 50% nerf. One of the worst solution imo.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Also with the smaller maps if someone leaves, its no big deal. On a large map if someone leaves 1/4 or 1/2 way through, your SOL. With less people on the map on a 5:5 the chance of death is much higher which brings me to my next point...

 

The big kicker is death. Even on a good team, on a large 5:5 map there is the chance of death. If you have 4 or less because people leave it becomes increasingly riskier. 2 shades and a 100+ brute will wreck you. On a small map the chance for death is dramatically lower, so you have little chance to get any penalties. This alone can make smaller maps quicker than the 5:5 large since your not getting a -8% or more for your xp/hr.

These are valid points not often made.

 

Everyone loves to cherry pick those big 5:5 XP reward screens and paste them on forums. But they don't talk about all of the messed up floors, and ones where people leave, or bosses that KO one player leading to a cascade effect, and so on.

 

People who like big maps also don't talk much about the time required to contact players, arrange times to play, coordinate things and so forth. Even when you have a group of friends you like playing with, it's common to run into scheduling issues, this one has to go have dinner, that one has an appointment, etc.

 

I don't deny that playing in a group is faster. But I don't think it's as much faster as some people portray it to be. And even though I primarily solo, I think team play *should* give more XP, to compensate for the annoyance factor.

I rarely run into problems with people dying.

I mean there are typically deaths on teams, but they usually aren't me.

Even if your team has a "cascade death" which I've never experienced, a gatestone can still save you.

 

i used to get 5 man teams by contacting friends.

It turns out that so many players with 2400+ total are looking for groups, that the RSOF has actually become a great place to recruit.

During good hours, you can get a 5 man team going in a matter of 4 minutes so long as you are 130+ combat.

I've gotten into 2 of the groups so far. One took 50 minutes, the other took 60 minutes.

 

try it, I didnt bother trying the RSOF until today but I have to say, it's pretty awesome.

 

maybe it's just small sample size. But you can weed out most of the noobs and griefers by requiring 130+ combat and doing floors 29-35.

[pulli23]

not everybody is 130+ combat >.>

[Jabuli]

maybe it's just small sample size. But you can weed out most of the noobs and griefers by requiring 130+ combat and doing floors 29-35.

 

This. I've also seen parties that accept players with high total levels too.

 

It's a bit harsh to not accept players with lower total/cb levels but it's an easy way to get a good/okayish team if you don't want to spend ages to find an awesome team.

[joker2022]

Woot ! Primal Maul drop

 

 

 

To whoever said it it a pos, they are full of it.

 

If you have 99 att and str, it rocks...

[Soma2035]

I routinely team with people under level 130... in fact, my last team had a level 118 and a level 126. I've never once had a "failed" 5:5 floor. The closest to failing one was when Night-Gazer pulled off some really nasty chains of high hits and killed 3 of the 5 members of our team. But that's happened before in 3:3 and 3:2 games for me too... and it's not common.

 

Which is why people who mention 5:5 games repeatedly emphasize good, coordinated teams.

 

I wouldn't say that big teams train faster than small teams. In fact, I think small teams can expect slightly (perhaps 10% higher) rates in experience.

 

But big teams do have the advantage of gaining the higher rate for a longer period of time. My theory at the moment is that it's best to play 2:1 or something along the lines of that for the lower floors, and switch to 5:5 for the upper floors, but I don't really have the numbers to back it up yet so I'm just playing whenever I feel like, however I feel like. :P

[tortilliachp]

maybe it's just small sample size. But you can weed out most of the noobs and griefers by requiring 130+ combat and doing floors 29-35.

 

This. I've also seen parties that accept players with high total levels too.

 

It's a bit harsh to not accept players with lower total/cb levels but it's an easy way to get a good/okayish team if you don't want to spend ages to find an awesome team.

 

 

If you know where to look (you'll know when you've found it, cause that's where every one of the top dungeoneerers train) you will find teams if you know what you're doing, and are an effective, efficient and helpful member of a team.

 

I played 5:5 large floors 30-35 with a team today, who all gathered up on skype to chill and chat, captializing on the team activity-aspect of the skill. We spent under 5 hours on these 6 floors, which is insane in terms of exp. 3 of the players were in the top 22 of the dungeoneering highscores, so they obviously know what they're doing, and play a lot.

 

These people DO recognize the fact that total levels aren't everything, but speed is crucial to getting fast exp. Their type of players will accept anyone with clicking skills over runescape skill levels. To a point. dungeoneering is all about combat, so the more effectively you can kill things, the more of an asset you are to your team. going 130+ is a way for us higher level players to play efficiently. If we only have 3 or 4 people for a floor, obviously we'll try someone with a lower combat to see how they fare.

 

These top players all play the same way, because it's the fastest exp before batch 2: 5:5 small dungeons through floor 29, then large 5:5 dungeons from 30-35. This is the fastest exp per hour, hands down, if you can find good teams. Sticking around for some waves with the same people is also the only real way to get to know people, and talk about more than just where each key is, or how anoying it is when you meet yet another door you have to pot to access.

 

These same top players have all tried primal mauls, and spears. for some odd reason, they all have spears (p++). Probably because it's the most efficient. They don't bother with armour, even for large dungeons, as this just slows you down. before the update when summoning levels were not taken into account for boss monsters, we did have to make armour. Now everything is a cruise if you work in a cose-nit 5-person unit with gatestones strategically placed around.

 

Killing stuff is also generally a lot slower exp per hour.

 

If you doubt any of this, have a poke around, and try pming some of the people who have tonnes of dungeoneering exp already. many of them are nice people, with pm on, who are more than willing to answer your questions. Questions such as why everyone wants a blood necklace instead of having a bound plate (you need a weapon ofc).

[pulli23]

why everyone forgets that the level of enemies depends entirely on the average level of your group

 

Meaning: lower levels in your team will simply make the dungeon easier!

 

Also the above sounds really "bad".. Of the type: "I sent my man to talk to your man".

 

I've tried IRC, the forums, w2, and various chats.. Yet I hardly ever finds a team that accepts lower levels! - What is it, if I am in the team I have to beg for them also to include lower levels to start a map faster! - I want to play, not wait..

[anonymouse_]

Woot ! Primal Maul drop

 

 

 

To whoever said it it a pos, they are full of it.

 

If you have 99 att and str, it rocks...

I've had a primal maul, rapier, and warhammer. A prom spear dominates all of them.

 

 

I don't really understand how the luxury of doing something can be a waste of time or resorces. While using the warhammer you have aproxximly the same melee capability avaivable to you, but, if you choose to do so, you can wear a shield. And as far as i know, you can only wear a fianite number of platlegs(or skirts, for that matter) at a time, so a kite is rather a first alternative to helmet+boots/gloves, which i think it is better and a second alternative to the stab attack of the spear, which, again, i think it is better. Also, i'm not refering here to some 8 minute games since i don't see them being the best experience avaivable.

The prim warhammer can't even compare to the prom spear, and you will never need the +575 slash def of full prom with kite to kill a boss.

 

why everyone forgets that the level of enemies depends entirely on the average level of your group

 

Meaning: lower levels in your team will simply make the dungeon easier!

 

Also the above sounds really "bad".. Of the type: "I sent my man to talk to your man".

 

I've tried IRC, the forums, w2, and various chats.. Yet I hardly ever finds a team that accepts lower levels! - What is it, if I am in the team I have to beg for them also to include lower levels to start a map faster! - I want to play, not wait..

Because most of the lower lvls won't even go in to fight a boss. In fact, they won't even go into most rooms to kill monsters, so they are utterly useless, and I'd rather kill harder monsters and bosses then have some idiot leeching off me. And if you're 130+ and use RSOF, finding a team for a 5:5 large usually takes <15 min.

[tortilliachp]

why everyone forgets that the level of enemies depends entirely on the average level of your group

 

Meaning: lower levels in your team will simply make the dungeon easier!

 

Also the above sounds really "bad".. Of the type: "I sent my man to talk to your man".

 

I've tried IRC, the forums, w2, and various chats.. Yet I hardly ever finds a team that accepts lower levels! - What is it, if I am in the team I have to beg for them also to include lower levels to start a map faster! - I want to play, not wait..

 

 

sounds grand doesn't it? However, the difference in you effectiveness against higher leveled monsters increases a lot from level 120 to level 130 combat. The level of the foes does not decrease proportionately. To epitomise that point, i played 2 floors with a maxed level 3 skiller today. 5 manning, our bosses were still in the high 300s from floor 1.

 

It's like how 76king, mobilising armies, oldschool pest control and all group activities have been previously: you can try as many forums and clan chats as you like. There are only ever going to be 2-3 good arenas for effective gameplay. Effective gameplay means most of those playing will be high leveled (also combatwise) as they are effective players.

 

sadly, much of this effectiveness comes from being illusive, as not to get lost in spam: it's like trying to go to a Mod's clan chat for good, intelligent conversation: no point.

 

Further, if i spend 5-10 minutes longer, finding a lvl 130+ rather than a 120+, i'm saving time overall. If i spend 20 minutes finding a lvl 130+ rather than a lvl 115+, i'm saving time. As a lvl 137, i can offer effectiveness, speed, and reliability. With a lower level, how can i give that same guarantee, unless you have special combat /skill stats (such as 99 range + def and a saggitarian bow, or 2300+ total which even then will be obsolete most of the time). If i can see your dungeoneering is 70+ at this point, i also know you know what you're doing.

 

It's about mutual trust, and that has to be gained somehow. For education, we use grades, for runescape, we have skills, combat levels and highscores.

 

 

As for the "my man": those who are level 80+ dungeoneering aren't many. that much gameplay in a short amount of people demands a certain type of player, and they convene in the same arenas, and always have. therefore, they all gather in the same clan chat.

[joker2022]

At cb 134

 

 

I found that once you reach around level 51, you almost need to do group dung.

 

 

Soloing is just to slow xp, and takes forever with higher level bosses, gathering supplies and getting ready for them etc...

[Peronix]

Ok, as someone who has been using the primal maul for quite a while now:

 

I just remade my promethium spear, and my god... it's so much better it's unreal. The maul absolutely dominated monsters like skeletons, shades, ghosts, and certain bosses, but on others it would hit so infrequently it was quite infuriating. But the thing is, even though the maul has 80 more crush attack, it really isn't THAT much better than the spear on those monsters weak to crush. In dungoneering it seems each monster has a weakness that is so profound that it dosen't matter quite that much how much accuracy you have. And on the styles they are not weak to... they're like a freaking brick wall. Maul is horrible against those monsters. The best example of this is mages. They are weak to slash. Maul hit so many zeroes on them it's pathetic. But once I switched back to spear and used the slash attack, even though it's less than half the maul's crush accuracy, it hits so much better...

 

Basically I have underestimated the value of versatility in the dungeons. Maul, while it is indisputably best for monsters weak to crush, it is pretty horrible on anything else. Besides, it's slower, and cannot be poisoned.

[ghjkl]

I can solo a floor in 8 minutes.