Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[Soma2035]

cmaul is only significantly better at nex, sgwd (team), WFS, wyverns

CCBow is only really good at nex and agwd as karils/HC out dps's it everywhere else. Rigour should always be gotten before ccbow.

 

rapier is best at bandos, dks, zgwd, slayer, frosts, all training.

 

PKing and TDs are a toss up depending on play style.

 

The fact is, CCBow and maul are more of niche weapons, and CR is much more useful overall, so while CR may not have been best for your play style, over all it is the better choice.

 

Quickly saw my error and got rapier. CLS has a few small niches, but yes, everyone should get rapier first.

 

To be fair, I went Rapier first and I've regretted it ever since.

 

1) I never asked for what's useful where. I know precisely where each of them is useful. Probably better than you do, incidentally. My point is that saying "everyone should get rapiers first" is an over-generalization, and not entirely true.

 

2) Chaotic crossbow can be gotten before Rigour for hunting Nex. I know OtG and PiD aren't very open to the idea, but many tests have proven that, if used properly, Ancient curses are actually very effective at Nex. When we did a trio and got 2 kills with absolutely no Pernix items, we had two people on Ancient curses. On the other hand, Chaotic crossbow is an improvement no matter which set of prayers you choose to use.

 

All Soma does is Nex. :P

 

Not true! I also train non-combat skills and do some Dungeons. :D

 

And Corp.

[Sir_Squab]

cmaul is only significantly better at nex, sgwd (team), WFS, wyverns

CCBow is only really good at nex and agwd as karils/HC out dps's it everywhere else. Rigour should always be gotten before ccbow.

 

rapier is best at bandos, dks, zgwd, slayer, frosts, all training.

 

PKing and TDs are a toss up depending on play style.

 

The fact is, CCBow and maul are more of niche weapons, and CR is much more useful overall, so while CR may not have been best for your play style, over all it is the better choice.

 

Quickly saw my error and got rapier. CLS has a few small niches, but yes, everyone should get rapier first.

 

To be fair, I went Rapier first and I've regretted it ever since.

 

1) I never asked for what's useful where. I know precisely where each of them is useful. Probably better than you do, incidentally. My point is that saying "everyone should get rapiers first" is an over-generalization, and not entirely true.

 

2) Chaotic crossbow can be gotten before Rigour for hunting Nex. I know OtG and PiD aren't very open to the idea, but many tests have proven that, if used properly, Ancient curses are actually very effective at Nex. When we did a trio and got 2 kills with absolutely no Pernix items, we had two people on Ancient curses. On the other hand, Chaotic crossbow is an improvement no matter which set of prayers you choose to use.

 

All Soma does is Nex. :P

 

Not true! I also train non-combat skills and do some Dungeons. :D

 

And Corp.

 

Of course, chaotics are completely useless at Corp, for non-combat skills and Dungeoneering. What's OtG and PiD o.O

[Dragonlordjl]

I have both, and I have to say the rapier owns the [cabbage] out of the CLS.

 

Almost everywhere I've tried out the CLS, the rapier or maul is better. For TDs, I get much faster kills with a rapier. For slayer, rapier blows CLS out of the water. Against metal dragons, rapier is better. The ONLY area where I would say the CLS is better is against Skeletal Wyverns, but that is a very niche use since many people prefer to skip that task anyway; and besides, if you have the balls, you'll use a maul for Wyverns, which is the best weapon for that task hands-down.

[Smart_shot]

I personally have used CLS and rapier i agree that rap is better then CLs in many occasions but for hardcore bossing i say the cls has to win the advantage of cls is that you can use it for slayer and bosses whereas if you get a mual you can basically only use it for bosses and rap is really bad for sgw if you enjoy that

[Just_Ne_Pker]

I got my chaotic weapons as CLS > CCB > CM > Rigour > CR > CS and never regretted the choice, simply because I knew for what I was choosing. I already had 99 slayer at the time Dungeoneering came out and I was mostly bosshunting DKS and TDS, where at TDS a CLS is nice to have in combination with steel titan and scrolls in Neitiznot (although void with cmaul isn't that bad either) and @ DKS the CLS is comparable to the rapier, certainly when you cannon Prime while you slay Supreme, since the cannon benifits from the higher bonusses of the longsword.

Also, at Saradomin Godwars, I noticed that, even in duo, the CLS outhits the maul by far.

 

Still, there is no discussion possible wether the rapier is the best -general- weapon to buy first, because it simply is, but if you know for what you're going to use the weapons, you can adjust the buying sequence :)

[ghjkl]

Rapier is better than longsword both at tds and dks, sorry try again.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

may i point out the obvious?

 

putting this in RuneScape Metagame Discussion, although sounding like a good idea. was a mistake.

cls v cr "Discussions" are never about the true detail.

 

as for me, i have had a whip for ages. it is a trusty weapon, one that plainly always works, even if not the best.

the way i see it, i can get a cls and get something thats probably an improvement. or i can get a cr and get something that is defiantly an improvement.

 

for me, someone who is far from maxed, has only 70 slayer, does not pk, the cr just wins.

thats all there is too it, its better then my current weapon, while being the same.

 

and im willing to trade a 5% boost in dps for a 5% boost in reliability.

[ghjkl]

may i point out the obvious?

 

putting this in RuneScape Metagame Discussion, although sounding like a good idea. was a mistake.

cls v cr "Discussions" are never about the true detail.

 

as for me, i have had a whip for ages. it is a trusty weapon, one that plainly always works, even if not the best.

the way i see it, i can get a cls and get something thats probably an improvement. or i can get a cr and get something that is defiantly an improvement.

 

for me, someone who is far from maxed, has only 70 slayer, does not pk, the cr just wins.

thats all there is too it, its better then my current weapon, while being the same.

 

and im willing to trade a 5% boost in dps for a 5% boost in reliability.

It does belong in metagame discussion because it's a proven fact that rapier>longsword in most situations. There is no subjectivity, and we got tired of the people that are like CALM DOWN CLS IS MORE FUN STOP BEING SUCH EFFICIENCY FREAKS

[SirCarrot]

I'll be getting a rapier once I have 200k tokens because it's basically just an upgraded whip, and I love the whip. xD

[GuidesForScapers]

I'd always choose CLS over rapier, purely because i would use it for a KO after a rush. Dat accuracy.

[ghjkl]

Then get maul

[Just_Ne_Pker]

Rapier is better than longsword both at tds and dks, sorry try again.

 

Not even going to try to convince you of the opposite or start a discussion about that, because that wouldn't belong in this topic and from your last sentence, it's pretty clear to me that it wouldn't make a difference anyway. All I can say is that I've been plenty to both DKS and TDS with a rapier, a CLS and duo trips with one person CLS and one person rapier and I can tell you that I certainly had the upperhand in terms of kills, certainly because I still kept my Pernix top on @ DKS and he switched to Bandos Chestplate. Supreme's immense weakness to Slash makes it very vurnable to CLS with overloads and turmoil.

 

And no offence, but if you're planning to argument with "sorry try again", you should really consider if you belong in an serious discussing board Metagame is...

[Quyneax]

It's well known that you need to have very low accuracy for cls to beat rapier. Possibly CLS has an advantage in a duo because of the small number of hits you get in, but I doubt that again. Also, why on Gielinor were you using a Pernix top at DKS?

[tintin113]

Also, why on Gielinor were you using a Pernix top at DKS?

 

^ This... I hope you weren't trying to tank prime o.O

[SirIzenhime]

I have no experience with TDs, so I'll ignore that part....but....

 

 

@ DKS and he switched to Bandos Chestplate. Supreme's immense weakness to Slash makes it very vurnable to CLS with overloads and turmoil.

 

 

No....just no....

 

Supreme has such low melee defense in general, it's vulnerable to ANY weapon. The rapier is easily the best weapon on Supreme

[Powerfrog]

Awful original post and i laughed my ass off at the 'video proof' where you get owned by a longsword until you get 2 lucky hits in a row and then.... LOL HE WAS EATING SWORDFISH THE FULL FIGHT. And comparing longsword to vls and rapier to whip as if vls and whip are the same thing anyway is rediculous, everyone knows vls is overpowered, that's why it's 60m for 1 hour of use and whip is 900k.

 

But as a whole, i agree, and i have actual facts.

 

For these examples i'm going to be using the gear that i consider the best. There are higher strength options but i think the accuracy is more important. Fury, Dboots, Zerk ring (i), Full torva, D defender, Fire cape.

 

Max strength and accuracy with longsword is 162 str and 171 slash.

Max strength and accuracy with rapier is 143 str and 138 stab.

Rapier gets 5 hits every time longsword gets 4 hits.

 

Longsword:

162 x 4 = 648 strength

171 x 4 = 684 accuracy

 

Rapier:

143 x 5 = 715 strength

138 x 5 = 690 accuracy

 

As you can see, not only is rapier a lot stonger, but it is also slightly MORE accurate. Longsword is literally only better if your enemy has very high stab defense and low slash defense.

 

TD's are the only exception to this rule i can think of due to the nature of their prayer switching methods, but even then cls is not the best weapon for the job. Maul is better as it hits even higher and more accuratley.

[Quyneax]

While your conclusions are correct, your method is not. You don't take into account the 64 base accuracy/strength number.

 

You will get 226/235 and 207/202, which means the longsword has roughly 9% higher max damage roll and 16% higher max accuracy roll.

 

Raw dps wise this means the cls gets 1.09*4 versus 5 units of damage, or about .55 less, over 10%.

[Powerfrog]

While your conclusions are correct, your method is not. You don't take into account the 64 base accuracy/strength number.

 

I have done before and it works out as being better dps unless your enemy has over roughly 550 defense. I have no idea how enemies defense levels are actually calculated and i came onto this conclusion with the aid of another player. I'd love if you or someone else explains how these calculations were originally formed.

[IHasChicken]

I don't know why TIF necroed this thread by moving it to the Metagame board.

 

It has been proven time and time again (through both anecdotal and empirical evidence,) that rapier trumps CLS EVERYWHERE except (debatably) Bandos.

 

You may as well switch the title to "chaotic rapier vs longsword (at bandos)", because anyone who says that CLS is better than rapier at anything like DKS or Slayer is either ignorant, trolling, or trying to play devil's advocate.

[Lose No Hope]

Cls is better than the rapier on Graar, but not the minions. Assuming you get two chaotics, the best setup for Bandos is using the maul on Graar and switching to rapier/ddef on the minions.

[Soupy17]

You guys do know in a fight the chaotic staff would win right? rofl

[Articultural]

Cls is better than the rapier on Graar, but not the minions. Assuming you get two chaotics, the best setup for Bandos is using the maul on Graar and switching to rapier/ddef on the minions.

 

Any proof of that, or is it just random hearsay?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

 

Awful original post and i laughed my ass off at the 'video proof' where you get owned by a longsword until you get 2 lucky hits in a row and then.... LOL HE WAS EATING SWORDFISH THE FULL FIGHT. And comparing longsword to vls and rapier to whip as if vls and whip are the same thing anyway is rediculous, everyone knows vls is overpowered, that's why it's 60m for 1 hour of use and whip is 900k.

 

But as a whole, i agree, and i have actual facts.

 

For these examples i'm going to be using the gear that i consider the best. There are higher strength options but i think the accuracy is more important. Fury, Dboots, Zerk ring (i), Full torva, D defender, Fire cape.

 

Max strength and accuracy with longsword is 162 str and 171 slash.

Max strength and accuracy with rapier is 143 str and 138 stab.

Rapier gets 5 hits every time longsword gets 4 hits.

 

Longsword:

162 x 4 = 648 strength

171 x 4 = 684 accuracy

 

Rapier:

143 x 5 = 715 strength

138 x 5 = 690 accuracy

 

As you can see, not only is rapier a lot stonger, but it is also slightly MORE accurate. Longsword is literally only better if your enemy has very high stab defense and low slash defense.

 

TD's are the only exception to this rule i can think of due to the nature of their prayer switching methods, but even then cls is not the best weapon for the job. Maul is better as it hits even higher and more accuratley.

 

The equations you are using are very off.

Please consult a dps guide or something, such as obliv's max hit formula guide on the RSOF.

He has the most up to date max hit formula.

And the traditional accuracy formula.

 

If you want a more precise accuracy equation, that factors in rounding error, you'd need to consult my spreadsheets.

 

Cls is better than the rapier on Graar, but not the minions. Assuming you get two chaotics, the best setup for Bandos is using the maul on Graar and switching to rapier/ddef on the minions.

 

Any proof of that, or is it just random hearsay?

Levon has several thousand data points counting the number of accurate hits and misses with both cls and rapier, and he determined cls to be better on bandos.

not sure which is better on the minis.

[Articultural]

Any chance of him actually posting the proof to back up his claims then? :P

[MrGreens]

he's banned from tif.