Squeal of Fortune + Buyable Spins

[Zaaps1]

Wait, what are these "security concerns" people are mentioning?

[HunterDexter]

Jagex said they're monitoring the feedback from the ingame people, and not only the "vocal minority on the forums", to get a good representation about how we feel over this update. I wonder how they do that? :s

Should I be spamming everywhere I go in RuneScape "I detest the Squeal update"? :P

[brunokiller]

Wait, what are these "security concerns" people are mentioning?

 

get your runescape account hacked/recovered and if you're using a creditcard and they're griefers, they can bill you $200/day (WITHOUT any security/verification).

 

All that jagex did to respond to this issue was to remind people to keep their password safe.

 

Is it bad that I don't even use a creditcard but now don't want to subscribe any further simply because I know they don't give a shit about the safety of my bank details?

[Zaaps1]

Wait, what are these "security concerns" people are mentioning?

 

get your runescape account hacked/recovered and if you're using a creditcard and they're griefers, they can bill you $200/day (WITHOUT any security/verification).

 

All that jagex did to respond to this issue was to remind people to keep their password safe.

 

Is it bad that I don't even use a creditcard but now don't want to subscribe any further simply because I know they don't give a shit about the safety of my bank details?

 

Oh, duh. Wow ok yeah if I subscribed via credit card and not the 3 month cards, I'd unsub right now.

[Golvellius]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

 

You spent an hour on 75 spins? Were you watching tv and eating at the same time?

One spin takes max 15 seconds (that's to click spin, get reward and claim it).

 

At that, 75 would take around 20 minutes.

I bought 150 spins

I probably got another 50 free through playing.

So thats 200.

The wheel spins around for at least 10 seconds.

Alch junk it throws in my bank, discard garbage, mess with lamps, thats another 20 at least.

 

I did it, I know.

You on the other hand just speculate and argue.

[brunokiller]

Wait, what are these "security concerns" people are mentioning?

 

get your runescape account hacked/recovered and if you're using a creditcard and they're griefers, they can bill you $200/day (WITHOUT any security/verification).

 

All that jagex did to respond to this issue was to remind people to keep their password safe.

 

Is it bad that I don't even use a creditcard but now don't want to subscribe any further simply because I know they don't give a shit about the safety of my bank details?

 

Oh, duh. Wow ok yeah if I subscribed via credit card and not the 3 month cards, I'd unsub right now.

 

 

Unsubbing does not remove your card details either. You need to manually remove them. (incase someone else thinks it would)

[Jonanananas]

The funny thing is, this isn't killing RuneScape, it could help improve it, as well as give Jagex a financial boost, looking at the current economy, it could prove helpful.

As for those people buying spins, if they really want to spend up to $200 a day, it's fine by me. The problem is about how they GET the money, as for an ingame advantage, they are buying pixels. Their account, not mine. I can happily say that I'm spin free. :thumbup:

That is assuming they put the money to good use... I may be being pessimistic but I feel some of these extra profits will go straight into people's pockets.

Well ultimately Jagex is a company so they'll be looking more into long-term investment. Of course some money will go into peoples' pockets, but that's because people are working jobs and have to get paid. But the best way to secure Jagex as a company in the long-term would be to put the money back into the company (whether that's investing in future game projects or putting more money into RuneScape). Jagex wants to succeed and grow as a company and if they just pay themselves more and more rather than reinvesting in the company, they won't keep growing.

 

Well...that's the problem with investors, right? They don't have to care about long term health of a company. They invest their money, milk it as long as it yields profit and then hop off to leave it dying.

 

For Jagex themselves, of course the long term investment would be the best, because they can't simply take their money and invest it somewhere else because they have no experience with that. Investors however can do exactly that....

[Den]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

 

You spent an hour on 75 spins? Were you watching tv and eating at the same time?

One spin takes max 15 seconds (that's to click spin, get reward and claim it).

 

At that, 75 would take around 20 minutes.

I bought 150 spins

I probably got another 50 free through playing.

So thats 200.

The wheel spins around for at least 10 seconds.

Alch junk it throws in my bank, discard garbage, mess with lamps, thats another 20 at least.

 

I did it, I know.

You on the other hand just speculate and argue.

 

Only speculation in my post was what you were doing while spinning.

I was going by your previous post where you said you had bought 75 spins.

You don't have to watch the wheel spin, you can skip it.

 

I have spun the wheel myself.

[tripsis]

Well...that's the problem with investors, right? They don't have to care about long term health of a company. They invest their money, milk it as long as it yields profit and then hop off to leave it dying.

 

For Jagex themselves, of course the long term investment would be the best, because they can't simply take their money and invest it somewhere else because they have no experience with that. Investors however can do exactly that....

Investors do care about long term health. They'd rather yield a lot of profit than a little profit.

[Maximusa]

Wait, what are these "security concerns" people are mentioning?

 

get your runescape account hacked/recovered and if you're using a creditcard and they're griefers, they can bill you $200/day (WITHOUT any security/verification).

 

All that jagex did to respond to this issue was to remind people to keep their password safe.

 

Is it bad that I don't even use a creditcard but now don't want to subscribe any further simply because I know they don't give a shit about the safety of my bank details?

 

As was mentioned moment ago but I want to also be clear. (Replying to zaaps)

 

It is possible to remove your cards on the spin wheel thing screen where you buy spins. Problem with that is they put it there by default without telling us. Impossible to know what future updates might be. (Will they again not care about card security.) As it stands if someone doesnt remove their card details then its possible to spend their real life money by just obtaining their pw.

 

Removing membership wont fix this. Either way you need to cancel them manually in the spin wheel screen thing. To me removing membership is more a 'why the hell arnt you taking my security seriously' as I would with 'any' company that dont. Its also a hopeful method that any future update they wont put my card details back on due to my information used for membership. If they did this update than I dont trust future updates unless they begin to take responsibility for this one. (Its likely jagex will add more rwt methods in the future.)

 

Jagex said they're monitoring the feedback from the ingame people, and not only the "vocal minority on the forums", to get a good representation about how we feel over this update. I wonder how they do that? :s

Should I be spamming everywhere I go in RuneScape "I detest the Squeal update"? :P

 

Hm, I didnt think of that one.

 

I just been using official forum, fan sites, and e-mails to jagex.

 

Same response everywhere though. Dont give out your pw!

 

The rwt stuff they just ignoring everyone or defending their actions. (Besides changing their rules/tos)

 

Maybe I should go to world 66 to riot. :rolleyes: Truth is they do go into various clanchats and the one I use they get swamped with everyone telling them all the reasons its rwt and bad security. I dont bother talking as I find the ingame jagex people are the worse people to talk to. That and they get swamped anyway. They just defend their update like good employees. So like good employees I wonder what their feedback will be.

[tripsis]

Jagex said they're monitoring the feedback from the ingame people, and not only the "vocal minority on the forums", to get a good representation about how we feel over this update. I wonder how they do that? :s

Should I be spamming everywhere I go in RuneScape "I detest the Squeal update"? :P

Well honestly one way will be how many people are actually buying spins. Think about it on their end. If tens of thousands of people have already bought spins, to them that says that the community likes the update.

[Jonanananas]

Well...that's the problem with investors, right? They don't have to care about long term health of a company. They invest their money, milk it as long as it yields profit and then hop off to leave it dying.

 

For Jagex themselves, of course the long term investment would be the best, because they can't simply take their money and invest it somewhere else because they have no experience with that. Investors however can do exactly that....

Investors do care about long term health. They'd rather yield a lot of profit than a little profit.

 

Well of course they're not out there and trying to destroy this game as soon as possible, but to them it doesn't matter if you have short period of huge profits or a longer period of smaller profits.

 

Or, to put it more realistically: There is a chance that over time, because of microtransactions, the interest in this game will die(Considering that it's almost only based on achievements, that isn't too unlikely imo). If Jagex was fully in control of themselves, they might avoid that risk. For investors, the increased profits make up for that. Of course for investors, if one of the game's they've invested in, that's bad. But it's just one source of money. For the game company itself it's death or life. That's the difference.

[tripsis]

Well of course they're not out there and trying to destroy this game as soon as possible, but to them it doesn't matter if you have short period of huge profits or a longer period of smaller profits.

 

Or, to put it more realistically: There is a chance that over time, because of microtransactions, the interest in this game will die(Considering that it's almost only based on achievements, that isn't too unlikely imo). If Jagex was fully in control of themselves, they might avoid that risk. For investors, the increased profits make up for that. Of course for investors, if one of the game's they've invested in, that's bad. But it's just one source of money. For the game company itself it's death or life. That's the difference.

Sure there's a chance.. but there's also a chance it will bring in a lot more profits for the company and thus help Jagex continue to grow as a company and enable them to invest more so that Jagex will grow beyond just the "one hit RuneScape."

 

I hate microtransactions but they have proven to work (in both the short-term and long-term). People spend thousands of dollars on them, often without even realizing. Take LOTRO. It was basically dying. Then they changed their model to F2P with microtransactions and it basically saved the game because it encouraged more people to play. Take Neopets. People talk about how much they spent on microtransactions and people are shocked when they find out. They go "Holy crap I've spent $1k on them this year." etc.

 

There's a reason that the article a few days ago was talking about how "Jagex resists temptation to use microtransactions" or whatever. Because they work. Yes the players hate the idea of them (myself included - I basically quit LOTRO when they were introduced there) but the problem is that they still use them. I mean just look at all the people here who posted "Ohmygod I hate this update! Just spent $80 on spins for fun." With one hand they criticize the update and with the other they buy right into it. And that certainly won't help us when Jagex looks at how many people are buying spins and see their names on the list. I'm sure they'll just label them as supporters of the update since they participated.

 

Investors may not care much about the quality of the game or upholding long-standing morals/rules (like Jagex's stance on RWTing), but they do want the company to survive and continue to make profits.

 

I do think that considering the nature of the game, Jagex needs to take a different approach. Buying XP does ruin this game. But if they stick to things like cosmetics or things that have little impact on the actual game progress, I don't think they'll destroy RuneScape.

[Zantareous]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

 

You spent an hour on 75 spins? Were you watching tv and eating at the same time?

One spin takes max 15 seconds (that's to click spin, get reward and claim it).

 

At that, 75 would take around 20 minutes.

I bought 150 spins

I probably got another 50 free through playing.

So thats 200.

The wheel spins around for at least 10 seconds.

Alch junk it throws in my bank, discard garbage, mess with lamps, thats another 20 at least.

 

I did it, I know.

You on the other hand just speculate and argue.

Click the button a few times, you don't have to wait for it to do the whole spinning animation #-o

[Zaaps1]

Did I mention that it took me over an hour to do that?

Let's see I need 70 mil dungeoneering xp.

So thats like $4800 and what 24 days of 5 hour wheel spining.

Umm... no just no.

 

You spent an hour on 75 spins? Were you watching tv and eating at the same time?

One spin takes max 15 seconds (that's to click spin, get reward and claim it).

 

At that, 75 would take around 20 minutes.

I bought 150 spins

I probably got another 50 free through playing.

So thats 200.

The wheel spins around for at least 10 seconds.

Alch junk it throws in my bank, discard garbage, mess with lamps, thats another 20 at least.

 

I did it, I know.

You on the other hand just speculate and argue.

Click the button a few times, you don't have to wait for it to do the whole spinning animation #-o

 

Law #1 of how to be a pro RS player: no matter what you're doing, spam click. Works every time.

[Jaffy1]

If people have the money to spend, and can easily afford to, why condemn them? If they want to spend real money at a quick chance at faster XP and perhaps save themselves 20 hours of so of game time, who are we to bash them?

 

Because it's unfair that someone willing to fork over half a grand can get 95-99 slayer (starrychelx) in a few hours of clicking a red button while it takes hundreds of hours for someone that doesn't? Not to mention, should gameplay be like this...seriously. If you can't stand slayer, runecrafting, agility etc, you can also NOT train it.

 

Simply, what's left of runescape if all goals are meaningless because you can just get them by spending hundreds of dollars?

 

And I'm not even talking about the gambling aspect of the sof, which is terrible as well...If I had a kid, I'd not allow them to play.

 

This is why I took the game away from two of my younger sisters after this update. If my parents were aware they'd probably pressure me to stop spending money on the P2p subscription out of principle too, but for now helping the community is a priority over that. If Jagex pushes more of this crap through it's a matter of time before I do though.

[GregorDGrim]

I mean just look at all the people here who posted "Ohmygod I hate this update! Just spent $80 on spins for fun." With one hand they criticize the update and with the other they buy right into it.

Each person who did this generated nearly a year's worth of subscription revenue for Jagex, and Jagex gets the money immediately.

 

If I introduce a new service or product line as a businessman, and it generates more revenue than the sum of: a) the cost of providing the service or producing the product, and b) total lost revenue attributable to the new product/service through customers leaving, then I deem the new line a success. There is no doubt in my mind that Jagex is generating significant returns from this idea. While customer anger seems widespread, as one reads the forums, the vast majority of players who don't see much, if any, of a problem with the purchasing of spins are not on-line posting their acceptance. They're just playing.

 

I don't like the ability to purchase spins because it encourages wasteful spending, it is marketed primarily to minors, and because it doesn't fit into the overall theme of the game. I'll never purchase additional spins. All that being said, it does not interfere with my enjoyment of the game to the extent I'm ready to leave.

[Platinum_Myr]

The problem is: player joe who pays 80$ to spin, might up and quit and *stop* paying membership. The instant profit is very high, but predicting the outcome long term is very difficult. I would love to see cosmetics buyable for RS. I don't mind that because it doesn't interfere with my ability to compete on a fair basis. But this is effectively buying XP. The rate of lucky/rare items on the squeel is so low that even buying max # of spins a day you aren't going to get one on average. (Not to mention most of those are equivalent to main items or xp lamps) So the chances of getting a cosmetic item like the horns or tattoos is effectively 0%. That means that real effort spent playing the game is reduced, which leads to people quitting or not starting because they don't want to spend hundreds of dollars to catch up and compete.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Tripsis, Jonanananas: Watch the movie Capitalism; a love story...

 

A very popular thing to do atm with your money to make more money is doing the most destructive thing you can imagine:

 

1. Take over company

2. Maximize short-term profits by doing:

a. making the company as "efficient and competative as possible" by selling off unneeded equipment and firing redundant staff

b. increase prices of products while ever so slightly reduce the quality (read: cost)

3. Drive up share prices by convincing the outside world that the company is now doing better than ever before

4. Wholesale sell-off of parts if not the whole thing

5. Profit

 

nope, no questionmarks...

 

In the end you're left with a company that is in ruins and has had little to no benefit from the temporary injection of money form investors...

[Bows]

It's all about profit, and that's all it will ever be about.

[Drazhor]

Just spotted a thread on RSOF that you may like...

 

[qfc]15-16-824-63669273[/qfc]

[icecube]

Just spotted a thread on RSOF that you may like...

 

[qfc]15-16-824-63669273[/qfc]

Interesting read. I also realized that the QFC codes lead directly to the threads and I don't have to go to RSOF and copy/paste them :wall:

[Drazhor]

They do?! :blink: Learn something new everyday!

[tripsis]

Tripsis, Jonanananas: Watch the movie Capitalism; a love story...

 

A very popular thing to do atm with your money to make more money is doing the most destructive thing you can imagine:

 

1. Take over company

2. Maximize short-term profits by doing:

a. making the company as "efficient and competative as possible" by selling off unneeded equipment and firing redundant staff

b. increase prices of products while ever so slightly reduce the quality (read: cost)

3. Drive up share prices by convincing the outside world that the company is now doing better than ever before

4. Wholesale sell-off of parts if not the whole thing

5. Profit

 

nope, no questionmarks...

 

In the end you're left with a company that is in ruins and has had little to no benefit from the temporary injection of money form investors...

Just because some investors have done that doesn't mean they all do and it doesn't mean Jagex's do. My dad is a successful investor and so are many of his friends. He's adamant that most investors would prefer to invest in the company, help build it up to make it strong and reputable, maybe give it a push to help it grow/succeed/expand, and get higher profits in the long-term. Investing is about long-term. In most cases it isn't about short, get rich quick schemes. It isn't an investor's job to run the company. They don't WANT to. They're there to give money, maybe offer advice, and use their contacts to help get the company moving. They're not there to change management, be part of day-to-day operations, or even run the company. They're there to invest. If the company isn't making enough profit I'm sure they'd give advice and make a few changes. But otherwise, they're not there to run the company.

 

I'm sure Jagex's investors would prefer to make the company strong and help them either 1) make RuneScape even more popular or 2) give them the funds they need to help them make another extremely popular game.

 

If they just run RuneScape into the ground for the sake of quick profits, they're running Jagex as a company into the ground (because that's their only highly popular game). It's in everyone's best interest to help Jagex make another highly successful product (and/or improve the one they have) that will then give them even more profits to play with in the future. If Jagex does manage to make another popular game, I'm sure a lot more profit could be made from that than from milking a dying game for all it's worth.

[Jonanananas]

Tripsis, Jonanananas: Watch the movie Capitalism; a love story...

 

A very popular thing to do atm with your money to make more money is doing the most destructive thing you can imagine:

 

1. Take over company

2. Maximize short-term profits by doing:

a. making the company as "efficient and competative as possible" by selling off unneeded equipment and firing redundant staff

b. increase prices of products while ever so slightly reduce the quality (read: cost)

3. Drive up share prices by convincing the outside world that the company is now doing better than ever before

4. Wholesale sell-off of parts if not the whole thing

5. Profit

 

nope, no questionmarks...

 

In the end you're left with a company that is in ruins and has had little to no benefit from the temporary injection of money form investors...

Just because some investors have done that doesn't mean they all do and it doesn't mean Jagex's do. My dad is a successful investor and so are many of his friends. He's adamant that most investors would prefer to invest in the company, help build it up to make it strong and reputable, maybe give it a push to help it grow/succeed/expand, and get higher profits in the long-term. Investing is about long-term. In most cases it isn't about short, get rich quick schemes. It isn't an investor's job to run the company. They don't WANT to. They're there to give money, maybe offer advice, and use their contacts to help get the company moving. They're not there to change management, be part of day-to-day operations, or even run the company. They're there to invest. If the company isn't making enough profit I'm sure they'd give advice and make a few changes. But otherwise, they're not there to run the company.

 

I'm sure Jagex's investors would prefer to make the company strong and help them either 1) make RuneScape even more popular or 2) give them the funds they need to help them make another extremely popular game.

 

If they just run RuneScape into the ground for the sake of quick profits, they're running Jagex as a company into the ground (because that's their only highly popular game). It's in everyone's best interest to help Jagex make another highly successful product (and/or improve the one they have) that will then give them even more profits to play with in the future. If Jagex does manage to make another popular game, I'm sure a lot more profit could be made from that than from milking a dying game for all it's worth.

 

 

Well, but you have to admit that we've seen some pretty drastic changes from the moment investors took over, that leaves only two reasonable options that I can see:

 

1)The investors have taken over and DO run the company

 

2)Jagex is, for whatever reason(Maybe because all their other games have failed, they've blown millions into stellardawn and runescape can't be running forever), desperate and the investors are merely a side effect of that.

 

 

Not sure which option I find more likely...or more comforting for that matter....