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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

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I smell an oversight, but I think people are going to make a mound out of a mole hill from this if you can't punch with both hands... A rather idiotic thing to argue about.




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I smell an oversight, but I think people are going to make a mound out of a mole hill from this if you can't punch with both hands... A rather idiotic thing to argue about.

It may be useful if you consider goliath gloves.


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I smell an oversight, but I think people are going to make a mound out of a mole hill from this if you can't punch with both hands... A rather idiotic thing to argue about.

It may be useful if you consider goliath gloves.

Just sounds stupidly overpowered.




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Yeah I doubt they'd let you 'dual-wield' your fists, it just doesn't make sense.

 

Why doesn't it make sense? If you do not have a shield on your off hand, it makes sense to punch with it.

It does make sense to use both fists (maybe trade in some defence for that option) but in the BTS video, they showed unarmed combat where the character used only her right fist. I'm not sure if they want to bother implementing this, though it would make boxing a bit more interesting.

 

I'd like to point out if you don't hack my post apart I already explain why I think it doesn't make sense for it to be implemented.

"Especially seeing as unarmed is kind of the basic no frills, no gear attack so why would they let you some how toggle it to do 'dual wielded' to punch at double speed."

 

I did not mean it does not make sense physically, I meant in the context of what unarmed combat is to the game.


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Yeah I doubt they'd let you 'dual-wield' your fists, it just doesn't make sense.

 

Why doesn't it make sense? If you do not have a shield on your off hand, it makes sense to punch with it.

It does make sense to use both fists (maybe trade in some defence for that option) but in the BTS video, they showed unarmed combat where the character used only her right fist. I'm not sure if they want to bother implementing this, though it would make boxing a bit more interesting.

 

I'd like to point out if you don't hack my post apart I already explain why I think it doesn't make sense for it to be implemented.

"Especially seeing as unarmed is kind of the basic no frills, no gear attack so why would they let you some how toggle it to do 'dual wielded' to punch at double speed."

 

I did not mean it does not make sense physically, I meant in the context of what unarmed combat is to the game.

 

Unarmed is incredibly weak normally, and with goliath gloves it's the equivalent of a whip. Why not allow players to toggle "dual wield" for unarmed combat? It makes perfect sense.


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It would make sense to have 'dual wield' fists imo. It would also make sense if unarmed combat was a whole lot stronger than it currently is. Maybe there will be unarmed grapple-style abilities.


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Final OG-Blog

Og Blog: The Final Challenges

16 hours ago

Hi!

 

Here is the last of my Og Blogs about the imminent launch of the Evolution of Combat Beta, in which I’ll be dissecting the final few challenges we set ourselves to address back when this whole project started. In many ways, we have saved the best till last!

 

Give rangers and mages a fighting chance – build a real combat triangle.

 

Perhaps one of the most contentious aims set out for the rework was to address the combat triangle. Firstly, it’s worthwhile pointing out that RuneScape has always been a melee-centric game, by which I mean that melee has always been the easiest, most accessible combat style to engage with, and 95% of the NPCs in the game are melee-based creatures. Rangers and mages have always had advantages in rare, self-contained situations in the game, but mostly it’s all about the melee combat. That’s our fault and it’s all about to change - but by raising the effectiveness of a ranger or mage to the level of a melee fighter; not by nerfing the melee user.

 

We’re also changing your base effectiveness against opposite points of that combat triangle, so – for example - mages will find themselves at a huge advantage over melee targets, both in PvP and in PvE. That’s the same for rangers vs mages and melee vs rangers. One of the great things about RuneScape is that it doesn’t force you to only adopt one combat style,and you should be given plenty of opportunities to make good use of each. We’re changing a huge number of NPCs to start using range or mage skills rather than only using melee, so, if you’ve got specific targets you wish to fight, you might want to change your combat style to be as effective (and efficient) as possible against them.

 

Of course, every player (with the right stats) will have access to every single ability and tactic available...it’s just up to you when and where you use them.

 

Fill the gaps in existing equipment tiers.

 

Without a doubt, this has been one of the most exciting areas to work on, with the aim to make sure that every combat style had a full range of gear to support practitioners of all levels. At many of the earlier levels in the current live game, some classes (especially mages) have a real shortage of gear to use, so we’re adding plenty of gear to plug the gaps. Also, with the introduction of the brand new dual wielding ability, huge amounts of new equipment for the off-hand have been added to the game.

 

Here are a few of our highlights. I’ll start by shouting loudly...

 

FULL BANDOS!

 

Yes - Bandos gear will be completed with the addition of a new shield, gloves and a brand new helm. Armadyl gear will get similar treatment! Rangers will find delight in the new cockroach armour; ranger “tank” bucklers; and awesome off-hand crossbows. Mages will find new safety decked out in spider silk robes and bat wing robes, while wielding new off-hand wands and orbs to increase their damage (or defensive) potential. The option to hybridise your combat technique by using multiple styles at once, by dual wielding, is probably my favourite. Anyone for dual crossbows, or an epic sword, crossbow and auto-cast spell triple-combo? Me, please! We’ve also made some changes to existing gear, modifying some of the wield requirements:rune gear, for example, will now only be available at level 50+. We’ve done this to spread out some of the gear at the lower levels, and to make progression through those levels a more balanced experience. Other gear has also been modified to work as an off-hand weapon, like the enchanted Excalibur reward.

 

Fix the Defence and life points.

 

It’s really difficult to create a balanced experience for players if they use items intended for players far higher in level than they are. While we can control this quite nicely with wieldi requirements, it’s much more difficult with things like food. After all, there’s nothing stopping a low-level player eating rocktails and drinking brews all day (aside from the cost, of course) but, if they do, it makes it nigh-impossible for us to create balanced, challenging content for them. You can hardly balance a fight assuming that all players are using high end consumables...unless they are high level.

So, we made the difficult choice to link life point healing directly to the Constitution level of the player. So, if you’re eating food intended for a player of a considerably higher level, we will be limiting the amount of healing it can do. For example, players around level 50 in Constitution should really be eating lobsters. If they choose to eat sharks, they still can, but it won’t heal any more than the lobster will.

 

The Defence skill has always been playing catch-up with the other combat stats. It’s been too easy to ignore it and undervalue it. From the perspective of a designer, that’s bad, especially when people are deliberately avoiding content that could increase their Defence level.

 

So, a big part of the challenge was about making the Defence skill more attractive for players to level up. We’ve solved this by adding a range of Defence-only abilities that give you more tactical choices, and tie many of those abilities to actually using a shield, or shield-like equivalent for mages and rangers.

 

We have also given players a significant life point boost if they wear armour appropriate for their level. Wearing appropriate armour can contribute as much as 90% of your total life points; more so if you choose to wield a shield as well. This means that a player with the right armour for their level (assuming that a player’s Defence level is roughly the same as their offensive stat) will have ten to fifteen times the life points of someone wearing no armour at all. The lower the level of the armour, the fewer points it can give you.

 

Allow players’ combat levels to truly represent their ability.

 

In the last blog, I spoke about the new Combat level calculator. With the strengthening of the Defence skill and more emphasis given to the abilities and equipment a player is using, rather than to skills like Prayer and Summoning, we hope this will give people a quicker and more accurate guide to the relative power of your opponent. While Prayer and Summoning will still be important, their contribution to the overall potential of your character will be reduced. This will, of course, generate more players with the highest possible Combat level.

 

A final note.

 

Well, it’s only a few days now until the beta worlds are launched, and we really are looking forward to seeing how you feel about the changes we’re making. As with all things in the beta, these choices and decisions are subject to change, and we need your help to make sure they are changed in the best possible way, and for the right reasons. Nothing is set in stone and everything can be altered, but what we need is quality feedback. If you don’t like something, tell us why, and - even better - give us suggestions towards a better solution. We don’t expect all our decisions to be perfect! It’s as important to tell us what you do like, too.

 

To give us feedback once the beta starts, you’ll be able to post your thoughts on the Combat Discussion forum, and to report bugs in-game as you normally would.

 

Don’t forget, beta accounts are only going to exist for the beta. Once it closes, they will be deleted.

 

Nothing you earn, lose or level on the beta servers will remain afterwards, and nothing you do in the beta will affect the live game. This will not change!

 

During the beta you’ll be able to pick up all the new gear and items, for free, from traders added to Lumbridge. These obviously won’t exist after the beta, and we will be working hard to add the new additions to the right areas of the game for the full launch.

 

You’ll also be able to reset your profile on the beta worlds to match your current live account at any point during the beta, in case you achieve something in the live game - such as completing a quest - that you would like reflected on your beta character. You can even reset your beta account to level 1 again. Ah, the memories of being a noob.

 

Thanks for reading, and see you in the beta!

 

Mod Mark

Not saw it posted here yet, sorry in advance if it has

Finally a bandos helmet, and the gloves and shield too, wonder what they'll add to armadyl set though to 'complete' it, vambs? boots? possibly a ranger buckler? or a bow maybe even?


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I don't like the comment on food. "You really should be using" is just wrong.

That said, making healing dependant on current max lp is pretty much a given, since a 200 lp shark would pale besides 10-15k lp overall.


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Constiution req for food. At last...


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Surprised they're placing reqs/caps on food..Could be either very good or very bad for prices, specially higher end fish

Also raising runes req. to 50 def is surprising move, but what does this mean for mith, addy etc.? will they get their levels raised too, a logical approach would be bronze level 1, iron level 5, steel level 10, white/black level 20, mithril level 30, addy level 40 and rune level 50, leading into dragon at 60, but then what happens to granite?


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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i dont like the bit about high level food not being good at lower hp levels

 

but im sure you understand the necessity of it

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I would put granite on the same level as rune. It'd just be a better member's version.

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I would put granite on the same level as rune. It'd just be a better member's version.

that would seriouslly devalue rune I would guess? does'nt granite have slightly better stats and potentially a better LP boost? unless rune is 50, granite is 55, dragon is 60 keeping granite the mid point between rune - dragon.

On another note if your say 90 def like I am and train in dragon for example will your LP boost be reduced, I mean what armour is there to use non-degradable at 90 defense maximise your LP boost?


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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I wonder if high level defense will be ruined by the fact that high defense level armor has massive costs and hteres penalties for not using the best armor.

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I wonder if high level defense will be ruined by the fact that high defense level armor has massive costs and hteres penalties for not using the best armor.

This is my concern also. If pvp is balanced around using the best armour for your level, then the system severely favours those people who can actually afford to risk high level armour.

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I would put granite on the same level as rune. It'd just be a better member's version.

that would seriouslly devalue rune I would guess? does'nt granite have slightly better stats and potentially a better LP boost? unless rune is 50, granite is 55, dragon is 60 keeping granite the mid point between rune - dragon.

On another note if your say 90 def like I am and train in dragon for example will your LP boost be reduced, I mean what armour is there to use non-degradable at 90 defense maximise your LP boost?

Rune would be the highest tier available to f2p, so no, it wouldn't really devalue anything.

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Wait, you made your own topic about this and then posted the same link in the main EoC thread?

I'm merging this thread with the main one then.

 

 

Looks pretty awesome. Brb, stocking up on a few weapons that should rise in price.


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With the whole completing sets, using appropriate to your level etc. I wonder where DFS is going to land in the new system and also how DFS/dragonfire will be dealt with, after all dragonfire especially is super low level but kind of necessary kit for a lot of higher monsters (until you get herby for super antifires)


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Curious as how to long the BETA servers will be up for. If the actual update will be in August/September then I wouldnt be surprised if they stay open for at least 3 weeks.


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Curious as how to long the BETA servers will be up for. If the actual update will be in August/September then I wouldnt be surprised if they stay open for at least 3 weeks.

 

Update is set for September atm and info we been told basically says beta will be open until launch.


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With the whole completing sets, using appropriate to your level etc. I wonder where DFS is going to land in the new system and also how DFS/dragonfire will be dealt with, after all dragonfire especially is super low level but kind of necessary kit for a lot of higher monsters (until you get herby for super antifires)

I'd give it shield abilities and decent defense stats, as well as attack stats comparable to a black/mith defender (like it is now), and maybe a special ability or two.

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Wait, you made your own topic about this and then posted the same link in the main EoC thread?

I'm merging this thread with the main one then.

 

 

Looks pretty awesome. Brb, stocking up on a few weapons that should rise in price.

I just thought seeing as the older Og Blogs had there own topics it would need it's own as well as here..like I said was unsure so posted it twice just in case, thanks for merging them though :D


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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On another note if your say 90 def like I am and train in dragon for example will your LP boost be reduced, I mean what armour is there to use non-degradable at 90 defense maximise your LP boost?

 

You've put my fear into words.

 

edit - I don't like a potential prospect of being penalised for using lower level armour, especially since it's penalty enough to be using it as it stands. Hopefully I'm just misreading the blog and we won't have caps placed on us.

 

I don't like the idea of having to shell out tons for Torva/Virtus/Pernix armour, if that will become the case Jagex better release non-degradable level 80-90 armour with the combat update that allow us to fully utilise our levels even if it doesn't offer boosts as great as degradable sets.

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On another note if your say 90 def like I am and train in dragon for example will your LP boost be reduced, I mean what armour is there to use non-degradable at 90 defense maximise your LP boost?

 

You've put my fear into words.

You could try using barrows, bandos, or a new set of armor. There's absolutely no reason to use dragon.

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