15 September 2008 - Summer's End

[Abe]

I think i'll stick with a dfs ;)

[Aneron]

 

You have to figure in that this is merely a damage REDUCTION. You wouldn't have 200 hp in one inventory spot, you will simply have saved some damage.

 

 

 

The prayer deduction also means that you wont be able to use it at area's where prayer is neccesairy, since you will more easily be outa prayer.

 

 

 

The shield is good yes, but not as good as the 70% chance of a 25 damage reduction one.

 

 

 

I really don't understand your logic. If the shield prevents 8 damage, you lose 4 prayer points. If you get 32 prayer points from a super restore, that means that if you are wielding the Elysian shield, 256 damage will be prevented before you use up a 4 dose restore trying to make up for the prayer drain.. This is quite large compared to what you get from a 4 dose brew (in fact, it is four times what you would get from a four dose brew)

 

 

 

It is true that you'll also be taking damage at the same time, but that doesn't change the fact that you will be able to determine how much HP you personally can save with one inventory slot. What I listed above was for 99 prayer and 99 HP. HOWEVER you also have to consider that by the time you PREVENT 256 damage, you will have taken about 597 damage, which translates into over 9 whole brews used to heal the remaining unprevented damage. So it is clear that you can't just take a bunch of restores to places and just expect to heal 7,168 damage with a load of prayer healing. But, it should also be clear to you, that if you can simply change up your ratio a little bit, you can save huge.

 

 

 

Say youre going somewhere that you would typically use 18-19 brews at. While using the Elysian shield, you'd need only TWO super restore potions to restore all the prayer that will be drained over using your whole load of brew. This translates into 512 damage that you can prevent by just having the E shield plus those two little restore pots. In case you still haven't been following the math this translates into 8 brew worth of healing. And...in the very long run...2 restores is cheaper than 8 brews. :P

 

 

 

HOWEVER (again) the real excitement with this shield comes from our friend the unicorn. It is very possible that a guaranteed 30% damage reduction will open up new areas for people to have their only healing be via unicorn. Not only that, but you may be able to use uni-only at GWD areas with fewer numbers now. Also we must consider possibilities of using some of the current setups, but simply carrying the E shield along for the ride. It could save some headaches at DKs when you get completely wrecked due to bad luck and see that your ppots are in way excess over your health restoring abilities. Swap out the shield and then the ratio will start to balance out. Not saying its the most brilliant idea ever, but its certainly an interesting possibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*EDIT* Just did some more math for the other shield. If you get a perfect statistical damage prevention (i.e. if the ability honestly activates 7 times for every 10 times you take damage), then 17.5% of all damage will be prevented (in a technical sense). This translates into using 14.85-15.675 brews worth of healing where you would've previously had to use 18-19 brews to heal. Meaning you'll save 3.15-3.325 brews. Comparing this to the E shield, where you will get 8 brews worth of healing from taking 18-19 brews worth of damage, but have to use 2 super restores in addition...it seems very unclear as to what the BETTER shield is. While the two abilities may seem relatively similar, they differ vastly.

 

 

 

Im not here to say the E shield is far superior...I'm just here to say that its ridiculous for anyone to be playing it off as a 100% inferior shield.

 

 

 

the argument for the E shield is valid, but look at it from another point of view

 

 

 

with guthans and a unicorn it's already possible to trio sara without any brews

 

 

 

what further need for healing/damage prevention is there?

 

 

 

the incredible healing of the unicorn means these shields will only have any use in monster hunting (edit while proofreading... I suppose if you have a high level titan you might want to substitute it for the unicorn, making the shields more useful in activites like slayer, but I don't think the difference with DFS will be that large)... and GWD/Corporeal Beast are the only types of monster hunting where you take considerable damage that still have rewards that make them at all worth pursuing for profit.

 

 

 

As mentioned, the most profitable gwd - sara - can already be done perfectly without any brews... why tack on the need for increased restore consumption?

 

 

 

I don't know enough about the corporeal beast to say anything in that regard, but I suppose it's possible to envision that this would be slightly more useful there... one should keep in mind that not many kills/trip are possible at the beast anyways though, and that how long you can stay is less of an issue there since banking and getting back is so fast.

 

 

 

and as for the shield that doesn't drain prayer, it's probably better than a DFS, but given the higher defense of the DFS, the difference probably isn't too stark... definitely not worth the tens of millions over the DFS it will cost for a very very long time

[nickeley102]

i just tried to do the quest and i was lighting pyres and the guy was hitting the beast in the chest , afterwards i would run and bank at bounty hunter, sometimes changing between the spirit world and the normal world.

 

 

 

I have logged now but as i was running back into the cave and chopping roots i noticed that the flames i had lit were not visible anymore. my quest journal had no mention the 2 flames i had lit.

 

 

 

do they still count or do i need to do the whole thing again?

 

 

 

p.s. this quest is quite hard

[Omali]

i just tried to do the quest and i was lighting pyres and the guy was hitting the beast in the chest , afterwards i would run and bank at bounty hunter, sometimes changing between the spirit world and the normal world.

 

 

 

I have logged now but as i was running back into the cave and chopping roots i noticed that the flames i had lit were not visible anymore. my quest journal had no mention the 2 flames i had lit.

 

 

 

do they still count or do i need to do the whole thing again?

 

 

 

p.s. this quest is quite hard

 

 

 

They still count, but it's up to you to remember which one's you lit. I lit 2, had to retreat, came back and lit one again and no cutscene happened. Lit the rest of the ones I needed to and they all worked.

[Smavey]

Alright guys i'm shocked this has only been brought up once:

 

 

 

The monster's weakness is stab attacks.

 

 

 

Zamorak spear has the best stab in the game.

 

 

 

Watch this vid to see 15 people take it down in about a minute

 

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Regardless of the strength bonuses of the shields, they definitely look worth it. Reducing damage by 25% is a major plus in my book.

 

 

 

If the spirit beast can hit ~66, then 66-(.25(66)) = 50 (rounding up).

 

 

 

The harder the boss monster, the better the shield becomes:

 

 

 

TzTokJad has been noted to hit between 95 and 99.

 

 

 

95-(.25(95)) = 71; 99-(.25(99)) = 75.

 

 

 

It'll be a good shield for tanking. Probably KQ, too. Or any other non-dragon boss monster you can think of. Takes the high sting right out of 'em.

[pulli23]

Regardless of the strength bonuses of the shields, they definitely look worth it. Reducing damage by 25% is a major plus in my book.

 

 

 

If the spirit beast can hit ~66, then 66-(.25(66)) = 50 (rounding up).

 

 

 

The harder the boss monster, the better the shield becomes:

 

 

 

TzTokJad has been noted to hit between 95 and 99.

 

 

 

95-(.25(95)) = 71; 99-(.25(99)) = 75.

 

 

 

It'll be a good shield for tanking. Probably KQ, too. Or any other non-dragon boss monster you can think of. Takes the high sting right out of 'em.

 

that last sentence extactly describes it: it reduces the KO effect from a lot of places. And I guess we all know where koing was the most valuable "thing": When pking.. The whole idea of "pures" came from the fact of being able to ko somebody.

 

 

 

So this shield will have even more uses in the upcoming (and current) pvp situations.. Negating the advantage pures have by reducing the KO ability.

 

 

 

I can foresee the most common sentence now already:

 

divine noob! :mrgreen:

[Kietaro1]

I know that the bulk of the conversation here is about the shileds and the beast but an interesting thing to note for those of you that are still trying to beat the quest is that you can take logs with you instead of trying to cut the roots. This makes that part ridiculously easy.

[SwreeTak]

Finally they fixed that skillcape thing :). Now they just need to fix my cape, the spotted one. Everytime I lay a trap it looks like it got a big hole in it...

 

That quest seems interesting aswell. I will do it as soon as I can.

[Danil445]

Wow, the dragonfire shield will drop massively... :-#

 

I wonder if the shield gives any 80+ bonus?

[Myweponsg00d]

 

the argument for the E shield is valid, but look at it from another point of view

 

 

 

with guthans and a unicorn it's already possible to trio sara without any brews

 

 

 

what further need for healing/damage prevention is there?

 

 

 

the incredible healing of the unicorn means these shields will only have any use in monster hunting (edit while proofreading... I suppose if you have a high level titan you might want to substitute it for the unicorn, making the shields more useful in activites like slayer, but I don't think the difference with DFS will be that large)... and GWD/Corporeal Beast are the only types of monster hunting where you take considerable damage that still have rewards that make them at all worth pursuing for profit.

 

 

 

As mentioned, the most profitable gwd - sara - can already be done perfectly without any brews... why tack on the need for increased restore consumption?

 

 

 

I don't know enough about the corporeal beast to say anything in that regard, but I suppose it's possible to envision that this would be slightly more useful there... one should keep in mind that not many kills/trip are possible at the beast anyways though, and that how long you can stay is less of an issue there since banking and getting back is so fast.

 

 

 

and as for the shield that doesn't drain prayer, it's probably better than a DFS, but given the higher defense of the DFS, the difference probably isn't too stark... definitely not worth the tens of millions over the DFS it will cost for a very very long time

 

 

 

Sure, it may be possible to trio with only guthans and unicorn, but I know of many people who definitely do not like to use guthans. Also many, like myself, do not even own a set due to the limited use and unreliability of it. Its easy to look at something and say "it already works this way, so why bring anything new to the equation?" Well, thats when it all comes down to real world testing instead of little calculations based on theory. Theoretically, you dont even need a unicorn at sara GWD, you could just use a fruit bat to heal as much HP. However, due to the functionality of the unicorn versus having to pick up and eat so many tiny fruits...I would never even consider using the fruit bat. You are trying to imagine using this shield with current strategies and setups, while the fact remains that these shields bring entirely new concepts into the game. It may turn out that going with the E shield and Verac armor + whip is the best thing to do...or, since you're basing so much off of prayer, maybe even prostelyte armor would be best! We really aren't gonna know what works until people actually use the shields.

 

 

 

Thinking like this is the whole reason people have negative views on summoning. Did summoning really bring anything BRAND NEW to the game? Not really, for the most part it merely assists in doing things we were already perfectly capable of doing before. People were perfectly satisfied using full guthans at DKs before, and it seemed like you could already stay forever, so who needs some fruity little unicorn? If you look at updates like this, everything is gonna seem useless until they make an update where the equipment literally allows you to do something never possible before, instead of improving the existing.

[Naive]

The shields look really nice, especially the Elysian one. I know the Divine one prevents more, but I'd rather not have to worry about my prayer -and- my hp at the same time. Seeing as they're ridiculously expensive though, I'll stick to my DFS for now.

[cat666]

If you use Jennica's ring to enter the Spirit World via any Wilderness portal then you "leave" the Wilderness. Therefore you can use teleports from high level wildy. I just used a Games Necklace from the one in the Rogues Castle neat Chaos Elemental.

 

 

 

Makes treasure trailing a little easier as you only need to dodge revs/Chaos Elemental one way.

[nickeley102]

thanks for the help already provided, one more thing though

 

 

 

im in the last room and i have shot the beast with 2 souls or whatever, my question is. is my progress saved in the last room like it was in the other 2? or do i need to start over in this room

[cat666]

thanks for the help already provided, one more thing though

 

 

 

im in the last room and i have shot the beast with 2 souls or whatever, my question is. is my progress saved in the last room like it was in the other 2? or do i need to start over in this room

 

 

 

Yes

[Flippi273]

I was wondering has anyone else gotten this message when using the ring in the dark warriors fortress: You feel a strange knowledge pass through your mind, but your experience in that area is not strong enough to hold onto it.

 

 

 

I have 77 def btw which is not extremely high but fairly. I just want to know what def lvl you need to get the 10k def exp.

 

 

 

If this has been stated somewhere else sorry, the search feature hasn't been working for me(I just get a white page :-k)

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Flippi

[wioneo]

I was wondering has anyone else gotten this message when using the ring in the dark warriors fortress: You feel a strange knowledge pass through your mind, but your experience in that area is not strong enough to hold onto it.

 

 

 

I have 77 def btw which is not extremely high but fairly. I just want to know what def lvl you need to get the 10k def exp.

 

 

 

If this has been stated somewhere else sorry, the search feature hasn't been working for me(I just get a white page :-k)

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Flippi

 

 

 

I'm betting that that must have been a glitch...you probably won't get the opportunity to get it either #-o

[Flippi273]

[hide=]

I was wondering has anyone else gotten this message when using the ring in the dark warriors fortress: You feel a strange knowledge pass through your mind, but your experience in that area is not strong enough to hold onto it.

 

 

 

I have 77 def btw which is not extremely high but fairly. I just want to know what def lvl you need to get the 10k def exp.

 

 

 

If this has been stated somewhere else sorry, the search feature hasn't been working for me(I just get a white page :-k)

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Flippi

[/hide]

 

I'm betting that that must have been a glitch...you probably won't get the opportunity to get it either #-o

 

 

 

Great.. haha anyone have any other input?

[UserOnRS]

* Very weak and invisible; in the very center of the Dark Warriors' Fortress in level 15 Wilderness. Gives 10,000 Defence experience (a high, possibly 80+, level is required to get it, though).

I'll try with my 82 defense when I finished the quest today.

[cat666]

* Very weak and invisible; in the very center of the Dark Warriors' Fortress in level 15 Wilderness. Gives 10,000 Defence experience (a high, possibly 80+, level is required to get it, though).

I'll try with my 82 defense when I finished the quest today.

 

 

 

I got it at 90 def.

[RSgamer]

* Very weak and invisible; in the very center of the Dark Warriors' Fortress in level 15 Wilderness. Gives 10,000 Defence experience (a high, possibly 80+, level is required to get it, though).

I'll try with my 82 defense when I finished the quest today.

 

 

 

I got it at 90 def.

 

 

 

Got it too, even though I'm 99 Def...

[Den]

I had 81 defence when i got the exp.

 

 

 

My guess is that you need 80+

[Ixindor]

I wonder if there are any more out there. I also wonder if Jagex will ever tell us if there are. It just seems odd to me that people found the one in the Rogues Castle and the one in the Dark Knight's Fortress. Those are invisible and as far as I can tell, nothing really hints you to those areas. So unless someone walks to every single square in the wild and operates the ring, no one will ever know if there are others.

[Erichermit]

I wonder if there are any more out there. I also wonder if Jagex will ever tell us if there are. It just seems odd to me that people found the one in the Rogues Castle and the one in the Dark Knight's Fortress. Those are invisible and as far as I can tell, nothing really hints you to those areas. So unless someone walks to every single square in the wild and operates the ring, no one will ever know if there are others.

 

 

 

I bet there are more out there. And who knows what other monsters and rewards could be found in those areas? The Wraith is already a wonderful reward for the castle.

 

 

 

I was thinking that maybe the Ring of Visibility may help located that stuff, but I doubt it.

[pulli23]

I wonder if there are any more out there. I also wonder if Jagex will ever tell us if there are. It just seems odd to me that people found the one in the Rogues Castle and the one in the Dark Knight's Fortress. Those are invisible and as far as I can tell, nothing really hints you to those areas. So unless someone walks to every single square in the wild and operates the ring, no one will ever know if there are others.

 

 

 

I bet there are more out there. And who knows what other monsters and rewards could be found in those areas? The Wraith is already a wonderful reward for the castle.

 

 

 

I was thinking that maybe the Ring of Visibility may help located that stuff, but I doubt it.

 

Well I did walk around at quite a few spots: been around -and tested every square- from the demonic ruins, hillgiant/ghost place, lava maze center and around the statue with black unicorns.. none found there..

 

 

 

Also it seems reasonable that there are only 2: since there are also only 2 "visible" ones..