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Wilderness and free trade vote! - Now Closed


Jimmyw3000

  

576 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jagex reintroduce free trade and the old Wilderness?

    • Yes.
      351
    • No.
      169
    • Indifferent ...
      56


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Herblore should not add to combat. In the end, every skill adds to combat somehow someway. The solution is to just make the potions tradeable. Or disallow them in the wild, and when you hop over the ditch have any potions immediately go away so you can't pot outside.

 

If every skill gave hidden combat bonuses that would be true.

 

Such as firemaking giving you the ability to light weapons on fire for added damage - would be a combat bonus.

 

Smithing making your armor - isnt. However smithing adding armor plating or spikes to your armor (for added defense or offense, respectively is)

 

Also, another reason herblore shouldn't add to your combat is because it would give people combat levels they may not have wanted. It's not fair to suddenly increase people's combat after the fact; dungeoneering and summoning were both released with the knowledge that it would add to your combat.

 

Dungeoneering does not add combat levels, technically. Which is my beef with the fact that Chaotics are allowed, yet Extremes are not. I think at least SOME of the new pots should be allowed, others not (IE Spec restores)

 

Neither do quests, or achievement diaries, or D&Ds... Come to think of it, the combat level explanation for banning extremes doesn't make much sense at all.

Just allowing everything would be the way to go if Jagex cared about consistency and fairness (Which they don't, of course. Allowing everything would also require a Constitution update to stop higher-level pvp from turning into a one-hit bloodbath.).

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Herblore should not add to combat. In the end, every skill adds to combat somehow someway. The solution is to just make the potions tradeable. Or disallow them in the wild, and when you hop over the ditch have any potions immediately go away so you can't pot outside.

 

If every skill gave hidden combat bonuses that would be true.

 

Such as firemaking giving you the ability to light weapons on fire for added damage - would be a combat bonus.

 

Smithing making your armor - isnt. However smithing adding armor plating or spikes to your armor (for added defense or offense, respectively is)

 

Also, another reason herblore shouldn't add to your combat is because it would give people combat levels they may not have wanted. It's not fair to suddenly increase people's combat after the fact; dungeoneering and summoning were both released with the knowledge that it would add to your combat.

 

Dungeoneering does not add combat levels, technically. Which is my beef with the fact that Chaotics are allowed, yet Extremes are not. I think at least SOME of the new pots should be allowed, others not (IE Spec restores)

 

Neither do quests, or achievement diaries, or D&Ds... Come to think of it, the combat level explanation for banning extremes doesn't make much sense at all.

Just allowing everything would be the way to go if Jagex cared about consistency and fairness (Which they don't, of course. Allowing everything would also require a Constitution update to stop higher-level pvp from turning into a one-hit bloodbath.).

 

 

Wildy used to be a free area just like everywhere else, do what you want however you want it.

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Not going to continue the quote chain. Just got a point. Jagex is sometimes lazy. It'd be far easier to allow them then to find a way to ban them. If they were to ban them, that would take a hell of a lot of work to make them usable outside the wild but not inside. They won't do individual worlds for this sort of thing because those worlds would be rather dead.

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Yeah, I really hope they don't make extremes unusable in the wilderness - I get it's not "fair" for those without 92 herb, but seriously, you can deal with it. I was disappointed in Jagex when they banned them from PvP in the first place, and I didn't even have 70 herblore at that point. It really ought to be allowed if they change back to the old wild system.

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I'm a pker, and I was happy for extremes to be banned from pvp, despite being able to make them.

Pking these days has gone downhill because of how easy it is to ko someone, it comes down to who gets a lucky venge combo or spec first. Extremes would have made this problem a lot worse.

Damage soaking was a step in the right direction, although it hurt slow high hitting weapons a lot more than faster weapons like rapier. In old wild, you get a whip, do a few quests like mm and you're ready to go.

These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

Still I'm expecting them to be allowed in new wildy, because it will be in normal worlds so it would be more work to code so that extremes are usable out of but not in wildy.

Then again they are doing a similar thing with graves so who knows.

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I'm a pker, and I was happy for extremes to be banned from pvp, despite being able to make them.

Pking these days has gone downhill because of how easy it is to ko someone, it comes down to who gets a lucky venge combo or spec first. Extremes would have made this problem a lot worse.

Damage soaking was a step in the right direction, although it hurt slow high hitting weapons a lot more than faster weapons like rapier. In old wild, you get a whip, do a few quests like mm and you're ready to go.

These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

Still I'm expecting them to be allowed in new wildy, because it will be in normal worlds so it would be more work to code so that extremes are usable out of but not in wildy.

Then again they are doing a similar thing with graves so who knows.

Yeah jeez, what a weird system it would be if higher level accounts were superior to low level accounts. Never heard of an RPG like that before.

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I'm a pker, and I was happy for extremes to be banned from pvp, despite being able to make them.

Pking these days has gone downhill because of how easy it is to ko someone, it comes down to who gets a lucky venge combo or spec first. Extremes would have made this problem a lot worse.

Damage soaking was a step in the right direction, although it hurt slow high hitting weapons a lot more than faster weapons like rapier. In old wild, you get a whip, do a few quests like mm and you're ready to go.

These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

Still I'm expecting them to be allowed in new wildy, because it will be in normal worlds so it would be more work to code so that extremes are usable out of but not in wildy.

Then again they are doing a similar thing with graves so who knows.

Yeah jeez, what a weird system it would be if higher level accounts were superior to low level accounts. Never heard of an RPG like that before.

 

You missed my point completely. High level accounts should be more powerful than low level accounts, but have you ever heard of an rpg with a pvp system where a players max hit is higher than 80% of their hp?

Jagex adds more and more things to make our accounts more powerful, korasis, claws, chaotic, staff of light, curses, the list is huge of things that will be used in new wild that weren't there before 07, and all this stuff has hugely cheapened pvp. Back in the day, you might get rushed by someone with a dds, and get mad because they poisoned you. Now they can rush with claws and kill you in two hits with ease. So anyway my point is extremes in pvp make our already overpowered accounts, even more overpowered.

I don't get why the majority of players complaining back when extremes were banned from pvp, were non-pkers? Makes no sense to me, if you don't pk, it doesn't affect you in the slightest whether they're in pvp or not.

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These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

I was responding to this.

 

Yes, they need to fix HP so that we aren't so vulnerable, but that's a poor excuse for singling out one of several high level combat advantages and taking it out of PvP, leaving all the others.

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I would like extremes in the new wild anyways. Not really cause I pk anymore, but more so I can just laugh at any poor sap that tries to kill me. Chances are a welfare pker isn't going to have the cash for 92 herblore, so give me a huge advantage in the fight >:)

 

 

Also, someone mentioned removing gravestones from the wild. They already did that with the corp area. I can't imagine it would be much harder to reapply the same code to the wilderness. But making it impossible to use extremes out there, i think that would be much harder.

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I'm a pker, and I was happy for extremes to be banned from pvp, despite being able to make them.

Pking these days has gone downhill because of how easy it is to ko someone, it comes down to who gets a lucky venge combo or spec first. Extremes would have made this problem a lot worse.

Damage soaking was a step in the right direction, although it hurt slow high hitting weapons a lot more than faster weapons like rapier. In old wild, you get a whip, do a few quests like mm and you're ready to go.

These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

Still I'm expecting them to be allowed in new wildy, because it will be in normal worlds so it would be more work to code so that extremes are usable out of but not in wildy.

Then again they are doing a similar thing with graves so who knows.

 

All they need is to copy the codes from monkey greegrees and set the flag to wildness.

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These days if you want to be on top you have to have hundreds of mills to invest in pvp on things like divine, 95 prayer etc. Extremes would just set back an average account preparing to be an effective pking account, by another couple of hundred mill.

I was responding to this.

 

Yes, they need to fix HP so that we aren't so vulnerable, but that's a poor excuse for singling out one of several high level combat advantages and taking it out of PvP, leaving all the others.

 

No. Even if extremes/overloads were tradeable they still should be banned from pvp. Considering how little defense/hp people have compared to the boost you get, pvp would be completely broken. Again.

 

And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk? If herblore reflected your cb level like prayer it would be fine, but if extremes/ovl were allowed the best pkers would simply become those who were the riches players and could afford 92+ herb. Obviously more money gives you an advantage, but the money you spend on things that don't boost your CB level can always be lost. The ability to hit higher, tank more hits, and restore your spec (much like all the CB skills combined) can't.

 

Dung is completely different. Dung obviously gives you an advantage, but its literally a one time advantage until you lose your chaotic. Either that or it limits other gear you can bring if you don't want to risk it. There are drawbacks and risks involved with chaotic. However, you can make as many pots as you want in like a minute of simply buying the ingredients and the costs are minimal for making the pots. Dung rewards are items. Herblore reward is a passive ability to gain a HUGE advantage (much more than a rapier/maul) over opponents and would turn herblore into a skill required for combat because it's a passive effect WITH NO DRAWBACKS OR RISKS, unlike dung which has huge risks to using it.

 

Handcannon and other expensive items can all be lost. Herblore grants you a passive ability like being able to hit higher/tank more hits, much like a CB skill which is why you can't compare it to anything else other than combat. No other non-cb skill would give you as distinct as an advantage as overloads/extremes in a fight. Even firemaking for handcannon doesn't increase the power or accuracy, it just lowers the cost of using it.

 

(The dung prayers are about the only thing similar, but the extra benefits pale in comparison to the boosts extremes/overloads get and the prayer levels required are added to your CB level anyway)

 

RPG's obviously involve giving advantages to people with higher stats. But combat and non cb skill should remain separated the way they are. You can get an advantage in pvm. The lines aren't crossed right now, but allowing ovl/extermes are going to blur it.

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And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk?

You can pk even with a bronze dagger, winning is another thing. And in every reality the winner is the one with the most money, skill and luck (in different ratios, but money is always the most important factor)

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And why the hell should anyone have to spend 100M+ on a non combat skill to pk?

You can pk even with a bronze dagger, winning is another thing. And in every reality the winner is the one with the most money, skill and luck (in different ratios, but money is always the most important factor)

 

You can always lose that 30m you spend on claws though. You don't lose the 120M you spend on herblore and its basically like you spent money on a CB stat for a passive ability, only it doesn't affect your cb level. A non CB stat is directly affecting combat. Other skills like smithing and cooking don't, because you can always buy those items directly without wasting 120m or time, and other things like dung have huge risks and drawbacks. Much like buying expensive gear. And dung doesn't even cost money.

 

What skills are the only things that are suppose to give you the untradebale and passive ability to hit higher and tank more hits? Combat skills. Not herblore.

 

Money obviously matters. But it never mattered to the point where someone with more money at equal CB stats would always be guaranteed forever to be a stronger fighter as if he was higher CB level no matter if he died or not, simply because of one non cb stat. People with 99 fletch aren't stronger than people who have 1 fletch, if you want consistency than herblore shouldn't be any different.

 

The same reason you can't fight people outside your CB level in the wild is the same reason you shouldn't fight someone who functionally is higher CB than you.

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Money obviously matters. But it never mattered to the point where someone with more money at equal CB stats would always be guaranteed forever to be a stronger fighter as if he was higher CB level.

 

Gear does that.

 

Regardless, if Jagex made the pots tradable, this entire argument would be mute. Not as much money may be invested in other things, but every single stat used in essential quests can count for this, because you're not going to get Barrows gloves, or that sword with the insane spec that I've forgotten the name of, or the things you need to do to tank or go complete agro, with anything less then any and all time and money you invest in what's required. The only difference is cost with Herblore. If you're (the community) going to cry about it, stay out of the wild or find a way to get the money. You managed Turmoil. You can manage this.

 

My 0.02.

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The same reason you can't fight people outside your CB level in the wild is the same reason you shouldn't fight someone who functionally is higher CB than you.

 

By that reasoning pures shouldn't exist. Isn't the whole point of a pure to keep ones combat level artificially low?

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That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

Then take out dungeoneering rewards, barrows gloves, Korasi's sword, most dragon weapons (the ones with quest requirements), handcannons, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of.

 

The point is that it's inconsistent. They need to fix combat, not just turn PvP into more of a stupid ugly mess than it already is by randomly cherry picking what can and cannot be used there.

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Wow is that some poor low herblore level raging I hear?

 

I dont think its much about extremes/overloads as it is that you can hit someone for 80% of their hp at 99 hp and defense. In very few games is this the case (unless you have a super weapon that only .1% of players might have).

 

Damage soaking was a good start but the bonuses are too miniscule to fix the problem. In fact the reason why Jagex took out extremes/overloads in the first place is because they calculated that with the right bonuses + the pots you could actually 1 shot a 138 with max health, given a bit of luck.

 

This is clearly a problem especially for the long run as people keep demanding bigger and badder weapons and armor in the future. Jagex can either increase damage soaking (or edit the whole defense skill to do this so it is actually useful as I said before) or add more major damage soaking armor (like divine shields) or add armor that massively increases lifepoints.

 

Rumor is Jagex has the increase Lifepoint armor, with the behind the frozen door boss.

 

 

Calling players poor noobs if they dont have the levels or might be complaining isnt really adressing the problem, the problem really lies with the brokenness of pvp in general, and the ability to 2 shot someone even if they have max stats.

 

Overall, I agree with you. I'd love to see overloads and extremes in PVP, but I don't like the idea of 138's being one-hit. We need level 80 armor with decent soak. I agree that defense should have an inherent soak ability.

 

PVP would be much more interesting/entertaining if it was no holds barred.

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Unless overloads doesn't have the ability to automatically restore your levels within the wilderness, I still find it a silly idea. It would be who could jug the brews the fastest, and jugging brews doesn't prevent your character from continuing to attack

 

Extremes should be allowed, but also introducing some good soaking armours (maybe enhance the PvP stuff, like Vesta)

 

Overall, this is the juiciest update since 07

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That was the most epic multi-post of all time.

 

I bet the smithing update was just dungeoneering lol. Just how that was supposed to be our fix of new bosses...

 

And I really do hope the extreme potions are allowed. Just annoying to selectively limit which skills can give you an advantage and which cannot.

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We need higher soaking armor and soak itself was designed very poorly.

 

You absorb UP TO your percentage of soaking, from damage that completely ignores the first 200 you are hit for. So instead of being hit for a 500 with 25% absorb and reducing that to a 375, it ignores the first 200 damage in that calculation and so the maximum amount you'd absorb is 75, leaving to to still eat a 425.

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