Squeal of Fortune + Buyable Spins

[Mercifull]

It's officially faster to work for minimum wage then buy the xp on the squeal of fortune than it is to runecraft at zmi altar.

[BiJay]

Well, in my country I know of lotterys where you always can win but it's still considered gambling and you have to be 18+ to do them (I consider "always win" as a legal scam btw). "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value" as wiki says. Always having a win doesn't classify it as not gambling. The problem here is the uncertain value of the outcome: What real value has e.g. a cabbage? Since this question is unanswered those buyable spins can't be classified as gambling.

[Mercifull]

Now weve spoken with the gambling commission, and theyve said that MMOGs arent the reason for the Gambling Act 2005, but they wont say outright, and weve asked directly, that they wont be covered. You can see how these would be ignored at first, but very soon they could be in trouble. Its a risk, but a very easy risk to avoid.

He goes on to suggest that compliance might require MMOGs and related traders to obtain a gambling license, which is not excessively difficult in the EU.

 

When queried about games where real-world transactions for in-game assets are not permitted, but there is an 'unofficial secondary market', Chapman responded:

Ultimately the point is whether the thing that you win has value in money or moneys worth. If it does have value, it could be gambling.

And so to avoid regulation by these laws, the...

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

Whether Jagex likes it or not, an empty bucket does not have the same value as a divine spirit sheild.

[BiJay]

Whether Jagex likes it or not, an empty bucket does not have the same value as a divine spirit sheild.

The problem is you can't specify the value. As long as that bucket doesn't have a value less than what they sell 1 spin it's no gambling as you can't lose moneys worth.

 

btw It prevents Jagex from making an item shop where they sell certain stuff from the squeal or something which can be traded for gp because then you can specify those values. But they can sell loyality points...

[Tim]

Lolwat. That's like saying Tip.It staff can start abusing the rest of the people around here, because according to that logic we're above the rules and everyone else isn't. It is utterly and completely disrespectful and hypocritical to uphold double standards.

But you do. :twss:

[Howlin0001]

Lolwat. That's like saying Tip.It staff can start abusing the rest of the people around here, because according to that logic we're above the rules and everyone else isn't. It is utterly and completely disrespectful and hypocritical to uphold double standards.

But you do. :twss:

Two words. Prove it!

(Don't worry I got your back mistress Jaffy ma'am. ;))

[Fred_S]

A friend of mine said Credit Card info was only saved on the very same computer you've checked to remember it. Thus being hacked wouldn't result in abuse.

[E--K]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

[Omali]

South Korea is already looking at this? They actually consider it that important and got on it already? If so, that was fast.

 

No, they've been looking into it for a year or so. The investigation asked several large Korean developers (NCSoft, Nexon, Hanbitsoft) over these grab bags that appear in their games. If you haven't seen them, they're pretty much what Squeal of Fortune is based off of, with the exception that you can't get them through normal gameplay. You have to buy the tickets and they offer a chance at random prizes. The Games Rating Board (Think ESRB, but Government operated and mandated) is attempting to determine if these constitute gambling. Unfortunately, none of the companies being investigated (ten in all) have complied with handing over statistics as to payout percentage, claiming the data was private, likely as a desperate save because if it is determined to be gambling they will have to get rid of them.

 

Again, Jagex probably doesn't have much to lose in South Korea.

[Bxpprod]

Whether Jagex likes it or not, an empty bucket does not have the same value as a divine spirit sheild.

 

MONETARY value.

[Sir_Squab]

Whether Jagex likes it or not, an empty bucket does not have the same value as a divine spirit sheild.

The problem is you can't specify the value. As long as that bucket doesn't have a value less than what they sell 1 spin it's no gambling as you can't lose moneys worth.

 

btw It prevents Jagex from making an item shop where they sell certain stuff from the squeal or something which can be traded for gp because then you can specify those values. But they can sell loyality points...

 

Solution: remove all potential Nex items, Bandos, Arma, 3a, etc, etc, etc, from the SoF, then you can start selling them in a cash shop. Just wait a few months just to be sure. Hell, the best items most people get are like rune ones anyways, people do it for exp. Not much of a jump to remove all the obscenely rare items that no one gets and them sell them for IRL cash. Not to mention that getting rid of items that arguable have real-world value helps their "it's not gambling case" - afterall, Jagex denies RWT involving RS GP, a rune scimitar would only be worth a fraction of a penny anyways, and the items with actual IRL value (whether or not Jagex wants to admit it) aren't on the wheel.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

QFT

 

It's a little something I picked up on as well, but I haven't figured out the reason why they sell not 75, but 40 with 35 free spins...

[999134]

maybe they plan to reduce the number of spins you receive down to 40 after awhile? (that might make it more balanced actually...)

[Omali]

Whether Jagex likes it or not, an empty bucket does not have the same value as a divine spirit sheild.

The problem is you can't specify the value. As long as that bucket doesn't have a value less than what they sell 1 spin it's no gambling as you can't lose moneys worth.

 

btw It prevents Jagex from making an item shop where they sell certain stuff from the squeal or something which can be traded for gp because then you can specify those values. But they can sell loyality points...

 

Solution: remove all potential Nex items, Bandos, Arma, 3a, etc, etc, etc, from the SoF, then you can start selling them in a cash shop. Just wait a few months just to be sure. Hell, the best items most people get are like rune ones anyways, people do it for exp. Not much of a jump to remove all the obscenely rare items that no one gets and them sell them for IRL cash. Not to mention that getting rid of items that arguable have real-world value helps their "it's not gambling case" - afterall, Jagex denies RWT involving RS GP, a rune scimitar would only be worth a fraction of a penny anyways, and the items with actual IRL value (whether or not Jagex wants to admit it) aren't on the wheel.

 

On the other hand, Jagex could call it something else "Requisitioned [item name]," make it untradeable, and claim it is a completely different item because you can only get it on the cash shop and sell it.

[BiJay]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

As long as you can't lose money it's not gambling.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

From here on out, it's a waiting game.

 

I'm going to wait the two weeks from Monday to see how many subscribers drop off (a-la HSL), and I'm going to wait for Jagex's official response. The trick here is that the JMods probably have mixed feelings about this matter, or actively oppose the decision, but can't say so in an official capacity, as it would look really bad for the company. Not that they don't look bad from years of "we know what's right, stfu"-like behavior to their fanbase...

[Vria]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

As long as you can't lose money it's not gambling.

Well, technically you can lose money.

F2P accounts, in order to get the special rare item that they've just won, have to pay more money in order to acquire it.

Not only is that another microtransaction, but it's also a bribe.

[xInfinityx]

 

randomtext, netting me a total of ~600k runecrafting experience (along with a mil or so xp in other skils). randomtext, I was getting experience rates comparable to 6 lvl 99 runecrafters doing ZMI altar perfectly[/b] randomtext

 

This is a huge, significant change to the game. All skills are now buyable with real money.

*Newsflash* All skills have been buyable for a very very long time already, it didn't come with this fail of fortune, it has existed for a very long time. (in which makes it even more sad, when you think about it.)

 

Yes. Runescape is and has been nothing short of a BUYABLESCAPE, get rich in one way or another (ingame or IRL and GG) noneed for 1337 player skills or anything, just time and a pile of currency = WIN.

 

 

 

SAD = YES.

TRUE = YES.

[Watershape]

In game impact will be huge... 250k RC xp is like 28k nature runes.

 

Less demand for pure essence, less supply of natures..

[Kirbyteam]

*Newsflash* All skills have been buyable for a very very long time already, it didn't come with this fail of fortune, it has existed for a very long time. (in which makes it even more sad, when you think about it.)

 

Yes. Runescape is and has been nothing short of a BUYABLESCAPE, get rich in one way or another (ingame or IRL and GG) noneed for 1337 player skills or anything, just time and a pile of currency = WIN.

 

 

 

SAD = YES.

TRUE = YES.

 

I meant buyable in the sense of having infinite GP would drastically increase the rate of XP gain. For example, a skill like Herblore only has a price tag. Once you accrue the money needed to buy supplies, the XP gains are very fast (1,000 xp per overload). In contrast, skills like Fishing or Agility (Ape Agility course gives 500xp per lap, each lap takes about 30 seconds) cannot be dealt with the same way. Even with infinite gold, you still have to hunker down and click on the fishing spot and wait a week or so. With this squeal update, that is no longer true.

 

The XP rates for using the squeal XP lamps are huge, and only get bigger the higher your skill level is. At level 91+ runecrafting, you'd be getting 1m runecrafting experience per hour ( #-o ). Why would anyone do ZMI and get 3/50th of the experience rate?

[BiJay]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

As long as you can't lose money it's not gambling.

Well, technically you can lose money.

F2P accounts, in order to get the special rare item that they've just won, have to pay more money in order to acquire it.

Not only is that another microtransaction, but it's also a bribe.

They don't have to pay more. P2P also had to pay their membership...

[sees_all1]

Is the 750 spin limit for a day, or total for an account?

[Flareboy64]

[hide]

 

randomtext, netting me a total of ~600k runecrafting experience (along with a mil or so xp in other skils). randomtext, I was getting experience rates comparable to 6 lvl 99 runecrafters doing ZMI altar perfectly[/b] randomtext

 

This is a huge, significant change to the game. All skills are now buyable with real money.

[/hide]

*Newsflash* All skills have been buyable for a very very long time already, it didn't come with this fail of fortune, it has existed for a very long time. (in which makes it even more sad, when you think about it.)

 

Yes. Runescape is and has been nothing short of a BUYABLESCAPE, get rich in one way or another (ingame or IRL and GG) noneed for 1337 player skills or anything, just time and a pile of currency = WIN.

 

 

 

SAD = YES.

TRUE = YES.

Lets say you had absolutely no gp though, other than RWT'ing, which other method of buying skills are there other than this? And since this is allowed by JaGex it's sorta pushed it too far this time.

[hatebringer]

Ultimately operator would need to take reasonable steps to ensure that the rewards they give do not have a monetary value.

 

It should be noted, that with the Squeal wheel you can win extra rolls, which do have a fixed monetary value as appointed by Jagex. Therefore it is currently gambling not only by common sense, but also by the UK law.

As long as you can't lose money it's not gambling.

Well, technically you can lose money.

F2P accounts, in order to get the special rare item that they've just won, have to pay more money in order to acquire it.

Not only is that another microtransaction, but it's also a bribe.

They don't have to pay more. P2P also had to pay their membership...

Sort of they do, since they may be a person who is only playing because runescape was touted as the "best free to play game" but now if they want to earn their item they spun and won they must pay for it. So i guess it could go both ways since they wouldn't have paid for it in the first place anyways. It would just be a slight temptation if a f2p person won something. p2p and buying spins is on a whole different level.

 

Although I HATE HATE HATE this whole microtransaction stupid bull update, I can't agree with anyone saying it is gambling although it may very well seem it. To me and the best of my knowledge, gambling is where you pay money with the knowledge that you may not get it back or receive anything for doing so, only a chance to win something. This is like the lottery or slot machines in casinos etc. However jagex sneakily ALLOWS you to pay for spins, gives you a free spin a day (or 2 for members) and also allows you to buy them. Now the one thing that makes it seem not as gambling is that you always receive something per spin. although it may not be considered equal to you, it is still a trade with a 1:1 payout regardless of value of the item gained.

If they ever were faced with legal complications they could simply remove the ability to pay for spins in certain countries for that but still unfortunately their system holds up to that aspect. It could go as to say even in player:player transactions you may trade value where there isn't an equal receiving value which is called "merchanting" by some I guess and that too follows these crude guidelines. Since there is never a chance of not getting anything jagex have effectively saved this horrible update from being considered gambling.....

[Jon Arcane]

From here on out, it's a waiting game.

 

I'm going to wait the two weeks from Monday to see how many subscribers drop off (a-la HSL), and I'm going to wait for Jagex's official response. The trick here is that the JMods probably have mixed feelings about this matter, or actively oppose the decision, but can't say so in an official capacity, as it would look really bad for the company. Not that they don't look bad from years of "we know what's right, stfu"-like behavior to their fanbase...

 

That is exactly right. I can vouch for one mod in particular, he also said that the update is here to stay, of course that was said yesterday, so with enough negative feedback this could be up in the air hopefully.