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So bring back dicing. We'll give the loser 1GP. It's not gambling! You always win!

This pretty much. Can't believe Jagex are trying to defend their actions as 'it's not gambling'

 

The thing is, they're talking about gambling in the legal sense...and apparently this, together with the fact that the items are all virtual, apparently is enough to make this not fall under gamblin laws(Which is stupid imo, because it clearly IS gambling and also abuses gambling addictions)

That's true, it's pretty close though. The only thing that's missing is for the game to be played for 'money' or 'anything else of value', I don't think courts would see RuneScape Exp as too valuable. It meets all other elements to be a gambling service, even though it's a stretch

 

Edit: Laws around the world are obviously different though

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So bring back dicing. We'll give the loser 1GP. It's not gambling! You always win!

This pretty much. Can't believe Jagex are trying to defend their actions as 'it's not gambling'

 

The thing is, they're talking about gambling in the legal sense...and apparently this, together with the fact that the items are all virtual, apparently is enough to make this not fall under gamblin laws(Which is stupid imo, because it clearly IS gambling and also abuses gambling addictions)

That's true, it's pretty close though. The only thing that's missing is for the game to be played for 'money' or 'anything else of value', I don't think courts would see RuneScape Exp as too valuable. It meets all other elements to be a gambling service, even though it's a stretch

 

While I am not a legal expert, there were cases when virtual items have been assigned a value, and I am convinced that you could indeed win a court case against Jagex - if you have a skilled lawyer. Unfortunately, Jagex can most likely hire far better ones, and I doubt someone will risk losing such a case and having to pay all the money just so you can prove Jagex was wrong...

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This will open quite a can of worms stateside, as the fifty states have differing laws regarding pay-to-play contests.

 

For example, ESPN operates pay-to-win fantasy sports leagues where the league members pay to join. ESPN skims a fee off of the pot and the league winners get prizes at the end of the season. Fantasy sports is clearly not gambling, as there is a substantial skill element involved. However, this sort of business is prohibited in a handful of states. I would expect no different treatment for the pay-to-win component of SoF.

 

I am disappointed, but not surprised by this latest cash grab gimmick.

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I think this will be the start of the end for me, depending on Jagex' reactions to this update.

 

It's incredible how many changes I've seen in the last 9 years, although now I can say for sure I miss the "good old days", which I never used to. <.<

 

Only 1 previous update seems to have caused this much controvasy, and that was the removal of the wilderness and free trade... complete shit storm!

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So bring back dicing. We'll give the loser 1GP. It's not gambling! You always win!

This pretty much. Can't believe Jagex are trying to defend their actions as 'it's not gambling'

 

The thing is, they're talking about gambling in the legal sense...and apparently this, together with the fact that the items are all virtual, apparently is enough to make this not fall under gamblin laws(Which is stupid imo, because it clearly IS gambling and also abuses gambling addictions)

That's true, it's pretty close though. The only thing that's missing is for the game to be played for 'money' or 'anything else of value', I don't think courts would see RuneScape Exp as too valuable. It meets all other elements to be a gambling service, even though it's a stretch

 

Edit: Laws around the world are obviously different though

My point wasn't about law, but about their double standards.

 

That is the what Jagex is trying to tell people and themselves to get away with it; It's not gambling because you always win something - which 99% of the time is 50GP or cow hide.

 

Let's use turn the tables a bit there. Bring back dicing, Jagex. We'll promise to give 50GP or 2 cow hides to each loser. In your own words, that's not gambling! What's this? You won't? How come...? Because it's gambling!!!

 

Hell, we'll even trade them the 50GP in the same trade they give us their 200M+ as bets so they'll be certain that they won't "lose". It's bad enough that you did this in the first place. It's far more disgusting the pathetic ways you try to justify it as not gambling.

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This thread: [qfc]291-292-8-63573774[/qfc] from page 47 on is also quite interesting...They really don't care about the rl risk.

 

quotes:

 

"So hello there guys, you really have nothing to worry about as I'm sure your accounts are secure."

 

"Again as I've said in my post above, an account only will get 'hacked' if you give them your password."

 

"By following our security tips as in my post above you'll have nothing to worry about. "

 

"Please trust that this does not risk your credit cards in real life at all."

 

 

 

Some of that are simple lies(e.g. 2 and 4) and others are really oversimplifying the issue and giving general statements that aren't really true either(How many accounts are *really* secure? Maybe half? less?)

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This thread: [qfc]291-292-8-63573774[/qfc] from page 47 on is also quite interesting...They really don't care about the rl risk.

 

quotes:

 

"So hello there guys, you really have nothing to worry about as I'm sure your accounts are secure."

 

"Again as I've said in my post above, an account only will get 'hacked' if you give them your password."

 

"By following our security tips as in my post above you'll have nothing to worry about. "

 

"Please trust that this does not risk your credit cards in real life at all."

 

 

 

Some of that are simple lies(e.g. 2 and 4) and others are really oversimplifying the issue and giving general statements that aren't really true either(How many accounts are *really* secure? Maybe half? less?)

I asume this is the distilled version of the interesting bit? Or is there more...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
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New response from Mod Mat K (contains profanity)

 

Straight from the horse's mouth, folks.

 

"BECAUSE THE RULES ARE FOR PLAYERS."

 

:shame: :shame: :shame:

 

Lolwat. That's like saying Tip.It staff can start abusing the rest of the people around here, because according to that logic we're above the rules and everyone else isn't. It is utterly and completely disrespectful and hypocritical to uphold double standards.

 

#Disappointed.

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I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questions

Hehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us.

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if a f2per ever buys spins on the wheel of fortune they deserve the 75 members items they can't claim :wall: .

 

when i first heard f2pers got p2p items i thought we would be able to claim them, then the would go to the member portion of our bank. and once we got p2p we would be able to use them

 

 

but nope, thats took simple for jagex

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I saw a post on the RSOF about reporting it to the BBC's watchdog program (www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/).

 

To be honest, I think a story about gambling in a game with minors where they can use credit card information which is already saved would be interesting.

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[qfc]15-16-615-63660816[/qfc]

 

The additional difference here is that with SoF, you can only win virtual items.

Ah, right. I see.

Well played :mrgreen:

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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The first is correct...The second is not, it's just like buying anything else.(They're both valid questions though :P)

 

 

 

Or, that's at least the way Jagex interprets it. I'm still convinced you could win the case against Jagex (I think the biggest issue would be proving that virtual items have a value, which some courts already acknowledged), but of course Jagex can get the better lawyers and no one is going to risk losing just to prove Jagex wrong anyway.

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[qfc]15-16-615-63660816[/qfc]

 

The additional difference here is that with SoF, you can only win virtual items.

Ah, right. I see.

Well played :mrgreen:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/02/runescape-gaming-theft-du_n_1250126.html

 

Jagex is done for...

 

The most important bit:

Therese Wallin of find a solicitor service Contact Law, said no English court would prosecute a similar case.

 

"The question of whether someone in the UK could be prosecuted for a similar crime, centres around how the victim acquired the amulet and mask during the playing of the RuneScape game.

 

In this case the boy spent "time and energy" winning them while playing and no English court would prosecute anyone and award damages to someone for a waste of time, that is, the time wasted by the person acquiring the goods in the first place, only for them to then be taken.

 

The case would be different if the virtual goods were paid for with cash.

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!

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This thread: [qfc]291-292-8-63573774[/qfc] from page 47 on is also quite interesting...They really don't care about the rl risk.

 

quotes:

 

"So hello there guys, you really have nothing to worry about as I'm sure your accounts are secure."

 

"Again as I've said in my post above, an account only will get 'hacked' if you give them your password."

 

"By following our security tips as in my post above you'll have nothing to worry about. "

 

"Please trust that this does not risk your credit cards in real life at all."

 

 

 

Some of that are simple lies(e.g. 2 and 4) and others are really oversimplifying the issue and giving general statements that aren't really true either(How many accounts are *really* secure? Maybe half? less?)

 

I know we know this but wtf I need to vent so I can get on normally with rl stuff lol. Its 'because' (What was the condescending words mat used earlier..) appraised? of security issues, that I am seriously concerned with this update. Its BECAUSE I care about security that this needs fixing. (And no I dont care if I insult mats feelings on this matter because a) He is an idiot who doesnt care about my security and b) this is MY RL MONEY we talking about here. Secure it! (Technically I already have but I mean by default for everyone else.)

 

Its jagex that are showing they dont care about security. >.>

 

Its not even about me anyway - I removed all my details - I had to because they are currently showing a stance that they dont care about my rl money security and parroting on about 'dont give pw out' type talk. >.> Its just standard security all around that people shouldnt be put at this risk when the solution is so simple. Dont put the details in for someone to abuse due to the possibility.

 

THEN of course there is the fact that their recovery system sucks and is abusable. Its completely insulting to talk to a customer like that. Its because I take security seriously that I am concerned by their lack of concern. Its come down to the community ourselves to keep parroting on about the same things so people realise they are at risk due to jagex being idiots.

 

I have looked at the that thread before I posted and its unbelievable how 'cavalier' they are about all this.

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The 'something' that most players win (i.e. cabbage, 50 gp, iron ore, bronze arrow etc.) is just their way of telliing players 'Better Luck Next Time', which actually has no difference from players winning absolutely nothng since these items aren't considered valuable.

 

That excuse 'everyone wins something' is just to cover their backside.

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This quote from a RSOFer made sense doesn't it? Made me chuckle a little bit :smile:

 

 

"Las Vegas casinos are run by idiots! After all these years, all they had to do was give away a paperclip, or even a used toothbrush, and suddenly it's not gambling because you always win something. They could have bus loads of children going there as soon as school lets out! And Jagex just figured this out! How brilliant of them!

 

Seriously though, this is beyond belief. Simply beyond belief."

 

 

Quick find code: 15-16-615-63660816 (page 18)

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Jeremy can't get on TIF to post so sent me these:

[spoiler=Mod Mat K]sofp.png

sof2.png

sof3.png

sof4.png

 

 

Haha :D I love the way he answered to the statement "You skip 90% of the questions". He didn't realise the irony in it; He said "I have passed this question to other mods, I hope they can answer them as soon as possible" is almost every Question (Skipping questions/not giving out information) .

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In under 140 characters,

 

Glad I didn't use a credit card to pay for @RuneScape otherwise I'd have to be worried about being hacked and charged 200 dollars for #SoF

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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